ACI 12 «Руководство к образу жизни бодхисаттвы, часть III», занятие 5

ACI 12, Class 5
971021-1
Course XII: Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life, Part Three
Class Five
RAW TRANSCRIPT



OK, ah
We're reaching a place now in Master Shantideva's text where he's gonna' talk
about the different kinds of wrong ideas that we have about ourselves that focus
on ourselves. Ah, when you see the wheel of life painted, ah, it's really
explaining the cause of all suffering in the world, the cause of all pain in the
world, the cause of all trouble. And, in the very first, at 1 o'clock you see a a
man with a cane and these are blind people. And that represents ,ah, ignorance
or misunderstanding specifically yourself , ok? not just generally
misunderstanding things but misunderstanding your own nature. And that is
the cause of all suffering. So tonight we're gonna talk about that, ok?, we're
gonna' concentrate on that.

Um, all the wrong ideas about yourself can be divided into two great texts.
Say Denzin
(student) "Denzin"
Kuntak
(student) "Kuntak"
 Denzin
(student) "Denzin"
 Kuntak
(student) "Kuntak"
DENZIN means the tendency to see yourself as self-existent or to see anything
as¤ self-existent. Den means true Zin means to hold it that way and it's the
tendency to see things as existing from their own side or existing really in reality,
OK? And we'll talk about that more, OK?
Do you really exist? Yes.
Is there a guy standing up here and talking? YES.
Uh, am I real in the way that you think I am? NO, OK?
Do I work? YES.
Do I function for you? YES.
Does that make me real in the way you think I am? NO, OK? And we'll talk more
about that, alright?
But anyway, that's DENZIN. So Denzin is the tendency to see something as
existing in reality in a way that it does not exist, OK?
Is there a way that I exist in reality that does exist? Yes. I'm standing here, I'm
teaching you. There must be somebody, there must be something, OK?.

KUNTAK is a special expression that means intellectual or learned as opposed to
natural, OK? So Kuntak means a, a kind of wrong idea specifically normally
about yourself thØat you pick up during your life, OK? You weren't born with it,
alright? And in this category you can put almost all the beliefs you have about
who you are, OK? I mean they weren't, they didn't come with you when you
were born; you didn't come out of your mother's womb and say " OH, GOD
MADE ME!" or you didn't come out of your mother's womb and say, you know,
"I was made by such and such atoms and DNA from my parents" or something
like that, OK? You didn't do that. Throughout your life people have been
presenting to you ideas about where you came from and and you've been
buying into some of them and you've been rejecting other ones, OK? What are
some of the ideas?
I mean, ah, DNA, you know? You, Your nature comes from these very subtle
genes in your, the cells in your body, and they, they determine what you look
like and how you act and and what diseases you might get and things like that.
And that's ONE kind of view about where you came from.

And then, you know, sžometime if you went to church or temple or Sunday
school , Saturday school, they said, they said, ah, "GOD MADE YOU." You know?
And there's this guy and you have different memories from your childhood. I, I
remember distinctly because of TV mostly, they had to show something, right?
And so they showed a guy with white hair. I had a student, like Rick, who
looked like that, you know? This beautiful long white hair and this really good
beard down to here and and I'm not making fun I'm saying what I remember
myself from my upbringing and he was very wise and very he was kind of
similar to Santa Claus I mean you had this good feeling about him you know?
And he was controlling the world and your parents said He made you.

And then there's the stork thing that they tell you for a while, you know? That
you were brought by a stork, and, uh, and then, and then, there's the Big Bang
theory, you know, I mean but that's aÍ little that allows for the genetic thing, I
think. So really, so those are the different ideas that people gave you about why
you are. And then somebody said "I think therefore I am." I forget who said
that? Descartes? Something like that. Anyway, OK, I think therefore I am so I am
my mind, you know? And there's a school of Buddhism that kind of says
something similar, you know, that you aren't all the things you're seeing because
you're always one minute behind them you're always a millisecond behind them.
So really, if you think about it, what's you is your mind. And like that, there's all
these different theories about who you are and where you came from.
And , and those are all Denzin Kuntak. OK? The ones you were brought up
with, the ones that explain where you came from and what are you, really, you
know, what are you made of ? Uh, those are all the theories that you grew up
with. You know? All these psychological theories. Uh, you are who you are
b¦ecause of what your parents did to you before you were three or you are who
you are because of what your mother drank or didn't drink while you were, she
was pregnant. Or all these theories about why you are the way you are and
where you really come from and what you're really made of and those are ALL
Denzin Kuntak or some version of it, OK? All the theories you were taught in
your whole life about where you came from, of which, half, you've rejected
already. You know? You rejected that a stork, you rejected already uh, Santa
Claus, well, not Santa Claus but some people have rejected the idea of a person
who is standing in the sky somewhere and running the show or something like
that. A certain, or maybe you rejected half of it or maybe you still believe half of
it or or something like that but you have all these Denzin Kuntaks. You have all
these things ideas about who you are that you didn't have the day you were
boÑrn. It's due to your culture, it's due to your parents. 95% of what people
believe is because Mom and Dad told them and there's no better reason than
that, you know?
Uh, Kedyup Je when he wrote his proof of future lives and past lives, he said
100% of Tibetans believe in past lives and not one can tell you why. You know? I
mean, they're ignorant about that. They are just as ignorant as we are about
their past lives. They believe what mom and dad said about past lives. They can't
explain why at all. So Kedyup Je is very disappointed in the Tibetans, you know,
he says 95 % of Tibetans can't give you one shred , one good reason why there's
a past life. You know? So, all of your understanding, you have to get used to
that, of who you are and where you come from is Denzin Kuntak, you know?
They're all different flavors of ideas that your culture has come up with, that
were invented by some guy 5000 years ago in Egypt or Mesopotamia who didn't
have anything to do onæe day and started to tell his kids where things came
from and they told it to their kids and you know all this stuff that you believe
about where you came from is just some kind of historical or cultural accident. A
lot of it can not be defended successfully. Uh, even the scientific ones which seem
so believable in the present time, I believe that in a hundred or two hundred
years people will look back and say, OH, that was so weird you know that
people believed that and so strange that people would believe that you know.
Don't think that's because it's modern and because it's fresh and because it's
convincing in you culture that in a hundred years it's not gonna' just be thrown
out the window. It will be. Like all the great, read science today from 1850 and
see how much it's really silly and don't think that a hundred years from now
everything that's written today is not gonna seem really stupid or even look just
20 years ago, ah, at some magazine about why things Science Magazine åand
50% of it's already silly. Give another 50 years, you know, the other 50% will be
silly. Don't believe in things because it's what Mrs. Melvin said, that was my 1st
grade teacher, OK? Don't believe in things cause that's what mom and dad said.
Don't believe in things cause the New York Times or great modern physicists say
it. I mean, you have to think for yourself. I mean most of the ideas you have
about where you came from and what you're made of are just Denzin Kuntak.
They're different flavors, different repackagings of the basic idea that I must be
self-existent, OK? Everything, all those ideas you grew up with. All that you
were fed throughout your life, through the media and your parents and your
culture, uh, it's all mistaken actually, OK? It's Denzin Kuntak, it's different
rehashing of the same old "I am self-existent." OK? We'll get to why later. You
know, I'm not saying reject science and everything else, I'm saying, with regard
to where you came from and who you are ƒand what you're made of you will
eventually see that those ideas are mistaken, OK?

Here's the other kind of Denzin.
Say, DENZIN
(Student) "Denzin"
SHENGYE
(student) "Shengye"
DENZIN
(student) "Denzin"
SHENGYE
(student) "Shengye"

Denzin, again is the habit of seeing, the tendency to see thins as self-existent.
Shengye means inborn or innate the natural one that you're born with, OK? This
one is not a product of your culture. It's not a product of your intellect. Its not a
product of your thinking about it. Bugs have it, amoebas have it, roaches have
it, elephants have it, fish have it, birds have it, humans have it. Every human
that ever walked on ting. And every being has it OK? So there's there two
different kinds of misunderstanding yourself. One is all the stuff that Mrs. Melvin
and those other people fed you..since the time you were able to listen to adults,
right? And then, by the way there's a movie called "Fairytale" which you must
see about uh, uh, so there's all this stuff you were fed by those adults and then
there's over here the one that came with your brain when your brain came, you
know? And there's a mistaken, your brain has a tendency to see things the
wrong way. A human, a normal human brain has a tendency to see things that
way and that's called Denzin Tengye, you're born with it. Yeah.
(student) unclear
"It's actually the reason why they're born, OK?" (laugh) You need, see what I
mean? Uh, the thing that causes you to create Karma and then to be born in this
realm is Denzin Tengye, you know, uh
(student) unÆclear
Oh, Since time with no beginning. Ok? We'll, I'll give you the definition, it might
help, OK? Let me finish the definitions and see if it doesn't cover what you're
gonna ask. That's just an excuse cause I think we're gonna have to stay a long
time tonight.

Tsor
Here's the description of it
Dupte...Lo...
Ok, let's try it
Tso
(student) Tso
Dupta
(student) Dupta
Lo
(student) Lo
Du Gu Pe
(student) Du Gu Pe
Denzin
(student) Denzin
 Tso means mainly, OK? Tso is a very popular word among Logicians and
Debaters because it gets you out of any problems that might arise later. Mainly,
OK? (laugh) and then you say, Oh that's why it said "Mainly," OK?
Dupta means normally, a school of philosopy a school of thinking, OK? When
Mrs. Melvin in the first grade taught you that people came from apes or gorillas
or whatever, you know, where you came from is these like primates, you know.
Then that was a Dupta, she had a belief system. Dupta's like that, OK? It's álike
Sidanta in Sanskrit. And then, later on, somebody said, NO NO you come from
this DNA and you know all this stuff and then later on somebody said NO uh,
you went to church and then they said it was God, you know, God did it, you
know, and all that, OK? So that's a Dupta. Each one of those is a system of belief.
So Dupta is like a system of belief. Dupta te means by that by a system of belief,
Lo Gyuwa, Lo means your mind Gyulwa means has been changed, OK? Your
mind has been affected by some school some belief system, OK? Lo Gyulwa, La
Te Ge, La Te means it must depend on that Ge means must. La Te Ge means
these are ways of looking at the world that must depend always depend on
somebody teaching you some belief system, oK? This is the definition of the the
tendency to see things as self-existent because you are taught that by other
people, OK? And here's the formal definition. Mainly, it is a Denzin, Ok? Denzin
meaning tendency to see things as self-existent, it's a tendencÝy to see things as
self-existent which always relies upon uh someone relies upon someone coming
to you and teaching you a belief system and changing your mind in that way.
When you came out of your mother's womb, uh, you didn't believe in DNA.
When you came out of your mother's womb. If you had been left to your own
devices, you know like they called those children in France, they found some kid
who was brought up by the animals you know for twenty years, I mean and
they studied him. Because here's a person who doesn't have any Dupta. Nobody
has inculcated any kind of cultures or beliefs of any culture in this kid. So will
this kid believe in God? Without ever having parents to talk to you know will
this kid believe in DNA will this kid believe in atomic theory, You know? And
no. None of it. You know. That kid's mind is Dupte Lama Gyelwa, free of any
kind of affected by any kind of belief system. This kind of Denzin is defined as
the one which must rely on being incuílcated and your brain being changed by
some kind of belief system that somebody taught you. OK? If you're gonna get
fancy it's like Mind only, Madyumika. If you're gonna get general it's what Mrs.
Melvin said it's what the Priest said at church it's what your friends said your
other kids in your school they'll like make up stuff you know like all this stuff
was made by Bugu Bugu you know you know and you believe it for a couple of
weeks and then you hear another one OK?

Here's the definition of the innate tendency to see things as self-existent. It's
defined as. You guys can thank Eric and Sutrum who came to me and said
"These classes aren't hard enough can you make put a little more Tibetan in them
you know OK.
Say Togma
(student) Togma
Mepa Ne
(student) Mepa Ne
Je Su
(student) Je Su
Shukpa
(student) Shukpa
Dupte
(student) Dupte
Lo
(student) Lo
Gyur
(student) Gyur
Ma Gyur
(student) Ma Gyur
Ni Ka La
(student) Ni Ka La
Yerbe
(student)Yerbe
Denzin
(student) Denzin.
OK?

Togma mepa Ne. ôTogma means the beginning. Togma mepa means what?
Beginningless. Togma mepa ne means for beginningless time. And that's not
just, uh, hyperbole. That's true, OK? According to Buddhism, the inborn or
natural tendency to see things as self-existent never had a beginning. You have
lived forever and you've always had it. And it was always perpetuated by its
seeds which it planted earlier. And those seeds were caused by it earlier which
was caused by it's the one of the seeds of the one before it and according to
Buddhism your mind has had no beginning and also your tendency to see things
the wrong way has had no beginning OK? That's why it's so extraordinary for a
person to see emptiness in this life. You know you haven't done it for years
beyond counting. Universes have come and gone since you were looking at
things the wrong way. You know? That's why it's so extraordinary to be in a
class and hear about these things cause if you are a normal person and I don't
know who's normal here uh bu"t if you're a normal person who hasn't seen
emptiness directly you're on the cusp of something happening that hasn't
happened in the in the time it takes many universes to grow and to be
destroyed. You know, you have been here for years without counting and
you're about to stop that process and so it's extraordinary to be in this room
right now. People tell me when I meditate I don't know what to rejoice about.
Oh how about the fact that you're one in a zillion. (Laugh) You know what I
mean? You know? That would be pretty cool. You're actually better than that.
You're one in an infinite number of beings who's hearing these things tonight.
Uh Because all of those other viewpoints I mentioned are just flatly wrong and if
you believe in them and if you hold them they can only lead you to die and to
suffer. And And this is a different viewpoint and it's and it's correct. And it
doesn't lead you to ódie or suffer. It leads you out of that. It's very profound.
I'm not just, you know, making you memorize philosophical definitions. If you
get it and if you replace your old world-views with a new one, you can enter a
Buddha paradise in this life. You know, that's the whole point. It's not a joke, it's
not like just trying to see how many Tibetan words we can memorize or
something like that. OK?

Toma Mepa Ne means For time without beginning. Je su shukpa means it has
followed you. You've had it. OK? It's been following you in your mind, OK? It
has gone on since for time with no beginning. Je Su Shukpa, that's the first
quality of the natural tendency to see things the wrong way, OK? Drupte Lo
Gyur Ma Gyur. Drupte, the same expression from above Drupte means some
belief system by some belief system. Lo Gyur, your mind has been changed, Ma
Gyur , or yousome brought up by the gorillas in Africa you know you would
still have this. It doesn't matter whether you've been exposed to another belief
system or not. It doesn't matter whether you're an ant or a human. You ...all, all
beings have this in their mind, and all beings are perceiving the world in the
wrong way. OK?

 Ni Ka La, means both of them have this problem. People who have been
exposed to belief systems and people who have not been exposed to belief
systems. Both of them have this problem. Ni Ka La Yepa means both of them
have it. Yepa means they have it. And Denzin is tendency to see things as self-
existent. OK?

The other big difference if you ever see emptiness directly soon. Assuming you
haven't done it yet, uh, there's another big difference betwee3/4n, I mean, this is
this is the description that you find in the text books OK? But if you if you came
to a person who had seen emptiness directly and said Could you explain the
difference between these two tendencies? They would jump right to this thing
here.

Say Tong lam
(student) tong Lam
Sa Gye Pa
(student) Sa Gye Pa
Tong Lam
(student) Tong Lam
Sa Gye Pa
(student) Sa Gye Pa

If your homework said, I mean, to a person who has seen emptiness directly, if
you said tell me the difference between the natural tendency to see things as self-
existent and the one that you've been taught in your by your culture and by
your parents and by your schools and by your churches, you know, what is the
difference? That person wouldn't even hesitate. They'd say the intellectual one is
the one I got rid of in thi path of seeing I remember. You know? I mean up until
the path of seeing which is when you see emptiness directly. Up until that 20
minutes I dÝidn't know what I was doing I was actually seeing the whole world
as self-existent you know? Then for 20 minutes I didn't see the world as self-
existent and then on the 21st minute I came out of it I came down and boom it
came back to me again everything looked self-existent again but I did not believe
any more. OK? That's the difference. Talk to an Arya and you say. What's the
difference, you know, between these two? He'd say, that's the one that I didn't
believe for a minute after I saw emptiness directly. You know if you came up to
me 5 minutes after I saw emptiness directly after I came down out of it and you
said " Do you still see things as self-existent?" You'd say. Yes. But do you believe
it? NO. What do you mean, you mean, you can't help yourself, you know your
wrong but you're still doing it? Right. You know. That's the big distinction. The
one that you don't have anymore. The belief in what you see is the Kuntak.
OK? That's the intellectual belief. IfÜ you ask an Arya who has come out of that
state. Do you still believe what you see? They say, NO. Do you know you're
wrong? They say Yes. Can you see emptiness right now directly? NO, uh Do
you understand that what you're seeing is mistaken? YES. Do you directly
perceive that all the perceptions you ever had in your lifetime were wrong
before this. I do. OK? That's the difference. They have removed forever
Denzin Kuntak. They will never again intellectually believe in what they're
seeing. Do they still see it wrong? Yes. Do they still see it as self-existent? Yes.
What's that like? We gotta' talk about it. We'll get to that tonight. OK? Uh, So
that's the difference. Denzin Segye the one that you're born with is much harder
to get rid of. It takes another seven lifetimes typically to get rid of it. OK? If
you're lucky and you practice Tantra with your whole heart and you have a
sweet beautiful Lama who can teach you that, then, then you can you can get
o¡ut of it you can stop it in this lifetime. OK? But, but normally seven more
lifetimes would be more typical. So Denzin Semgye is a lot harder to get rid of.
It's that natural tendency to see things as self-existent. OK?

Sa Gye Pa means the eighth bodhisattva level. OK? The eighth Bodhisattva
Level. Sa means level, like Bumi, Bodhisattva Bumi and Gye Pa means number
eight. There's a total of ten Bodhisattva levels. The first Bodhisattva level starts
on the day you see emptiness directly. If you're on a Bodhisattva track. OK?
Meaning if you have total compassion in your heart. The first Bodhisattva level
begins on that moment that you see emptiness directly. The eighth Bodhisattva
level normally happens seven lifetimes later or something like that. So it's hard
to get there, OK? And on the eighth Bodhisattva Level, you forever stop the
manifest tendency to see things as self-existent that you were born with¿.
Manifest meaning you'll never have it come up in your mind again. Are the
seeds still there? Yes. Will they ever make you see anything as self-existent
again? No. So eighth Bodhisattva Level is a very important level. OK? At that
level, it sort of corresponds to what the lower schools what would happen if you
reach Nirvana in the Hinayana track but I won't go into that. You have forever
stopped the tendency to see things as self-existent actively in your mind. It'll
never happen again actively in your mind. You still have some kind of seeds
that will never make you see it again but those seeds have to be destroyed
during the ninth Bodhisattva Level. OK?

So that's how a person would answer it if they had gone through that process. I
mean, they'd be more interested in explaining to you..they would be talking less
about your childhood life and what your Mrs. Melvin taught you and they'd be
talking more about OH Yeah that's the one I gotÞ rid of the day I saw emptiness
directly. I remember. Because I don't believe what I saw after that. You know. I
still don't believe what I see. Or if they remove the second one, they say, Oh
Yeah I remember that. I remember when things still looked self-existent to me
but I new they weren't. OK? That's the difference. Experientially that's the
difference. OK? Uh, I'm gonna' talk about three different kinds of . Yeah..

(student) Unclear
Can I say more about how things are beginningless? Oh Sure. Just a little tiny
bit OK? And you have to take the course on Proving Future and Past Lives. I
don't know, what number is that, 4? Course Number 4. You can get the tapes
for free from Mary. Anyway. Master Darma Kirti goes into a long proof in the
second chapter in the Pramana Martika . It's called Kewam Namchitupa. And,
uh, the basic theory although I hate to say it in a moment because you won't
believe it and you might disbelieve it and that's a bad karma but anyway. ÁThe
basic theory is that mind is a kind of substance in the way that physical matter is
and that they are totally separate substances. The substances, the substance of
which mind is made is invisible and aware. Those are its two qualities. And the
substance of which physical matter is made is like. It it has some kind of weight,
it has some kind of visual form or smellable hearable tasteable touchable
something about it like that. But anyway, according to Buddhism, they are
totally different. You know, the brain may, the the the mind may reside in the
brain or close to the brain but it is not the brain. It is some invisible thing which
stays around the brain but can also go home right now and check if some of
those nice cookies that Ann made are still on my altar. You know? ( Laugh)
They are. The mind is not limited to your physical skin and it's not foolish to say
it is. It's not at all. Or else Einstein couldn't have ever blown up Japaßn or
whatever. OK? It's not limited to your physical skin. And it takes mind to create
mind. The substance of which mind is made requires as its principle cause, uh, a
similar substance prior to its existence.         And the first moment of your
consciousness in this life must have been preceeded by a similar moment of
consciousness. According to Buddhism, uh. Once you prove a single instant
milisecond of consciousness prior to your first consciousness in this life then you
must say that lives are beginningless. Then you must say that your mind is
beginningless. And you can think about it OK? I mean that's the Buddhist
Theory?
(student) Unclear
You're sure? It's gonna get late.
(student) Unclear.
(GMR laughs) I don't know exactly, uh. How would a Bodhisattva at the eighth
level view reality? Uh. They still see things. You know they still see all the things
you see. I would say that by that time they are totally sensitized to the fact that
every single detail of every singlÃe experience they are having is a projection of
their own mind. It's their own mind organizing data and they, I would guess
that it looks like they can almost see the flow of their own karma a.. affecting
and determining every detail of their life and then in response to that
knowledge.. that Prajnaparamita and the compassion that they also have they
are doing incredible Bodhisattva deeds all day long. You know? They never do
anything that's less than a high Bodhisattva action cause they see directly how
the karma is creating their world . On a moment to moment basis they're aware
of it and they're watching it and they're very sensitive to to that. So they're
never creating a bad deed, never creating a bad karma like that. Extraordinary.
Also once you've gotten to the eighth level you have perfected the first six
perfections in an extraordinary form.           The first six levels correspond to
perfecting each of them in an extraordinary form. So tható person would be
extraordinarily generous, extraordinarily moral, extraordinarily patient,
extraordinarily good concentration like that, extraodinary joy about good deeds,
stuff like that. OK.

Uh, I'm gonna' give you three different kinds of intellectual wrong ideas about
yourself OK? When I say intellectual, I'm also including Mrs. Melvin. Ok? I I I
wouldn't say, not to put her down. She was cool. First Grade, My first grade
teacher, sweet lady. Uh, But she determined a lot of my world view. You know?
Here's this lady who plays bridge on the weekends is mostly interested in
chocolate. You know, and here she is determining my future. You know? By
whatever she heard in the Arizona Republic newspaper which was a weird
newspaper. Uh, that morning, you know. And she's giving it to us and we're like
believe her like we believe God. And and then I'm stuck with that baggage my
whole life. It it's very very difficult to remove the visceral presuppositions, as
they call them at Princeton. Uøh, about your life, that you grew up with you
know. It's extremely difficult to remove them. You take them as real because
Mrs. Melvin said so. OK? YOU still do. Very difficult to remove them, very
difficult to question them. OK? Uh. It ends up like questioning the New York
Times which is very difficult for a New Yorker. Alright.
(Student) unclear.

Seriously.

Here's the first one. Three kinds of wrong ideas that you might have learned
from Mrs. Melvin or somebody like that. And these are being presented in the
Bodhisattva ....tara by Master Shantideva 13 centuries ago. Things haven't
changed. The human mind wants to hold things as self-existent in the same old
way. OK?
This is, uh, Stupid Way of Looking at your World #1. OK?
By the way when I say stupid way of looking at your world or I'm picking on
Mrs. Melvin, she was much bigger than me in those days. Now I can get her
back. I'm not, I'm not uh just being flippant and I'm not like attacking Western
Culture for fun or somethin1/2g like that. Those world views kill you. You will
die if you hold those world views. You know? You can not enter a Buddha
Paradise, you can not enter Nirvana. You will continue to suffer if you hold
those world views. That's why I attack them. They don't work. They don't
work. They're not correct. They're not true they don't work. You suffer if you
hold them. So the point is to try to replace them with something that can get you
out of dying out of suffering in this life. That's the whole point. And out of
mental suffering in this life. OK? Those world views don't work from that point
of view. OK? They simply don't work. The Buddhist one works. It can get you
into a Buddha Paradise in this life. If it can't. Or if it doesn't smell to you that it
can, you shouldn't come to this class. The reason to come to this class is not to
make you come is not to make you a better friendly person although you will be
uh. It's actually to try Ýto get out of dying. And death. And suffering and help
other people do that. OK? That's the goal of this. That's why we're discussing
world views. You must now give up the other ones if you don't want to die.
Seriously. OK? If you're tired of suffering. You have to give up the other ones.
You know. You can still read the New York Times. Uh, but uh don't believe it.
Ok.

Say it. Kanksta. Dang. Pumbo. Jewo Dang Kulpo Shindu Tzimba.

Ok. Kanksta means a a person meaning you. OK? Kanksa means person it
means you OK? Dang means and. Pumbo means uh pumbo means the scanas
or the heaps. I like to translate it sometimes as your parts. The parts that make
you your mind your body and the other stuff that makes you up. OK? That's all.
Just When you hear the word heaps, I'll use the word heaps. But just think of it as
the parts. Your parts. Your arms your legs your head your mind your jealousy
your happiness OK? All the stuff that you are. Michael. Which is a concept. ìAll
that stuff is my heaps or my parts. OK? Jewo means. Je je like in Je Tsongkapa?
It means Lord. Je wo means a master as opposed to a servant. OK? It's the
ancient word in Tibetan for Master. It's a very very old word. It's it's not been
used for a long time. OK? Jewo means a master. Uh, But obviously the word Je
like Je Tsonghkapa is connected to it. Dang means and. Kulpo means a servant,
servants. OK? Servant. Shindu means like or similar to. Zimba means to think
of them that way or to hold them that way or to grasp it that way. OK? What
does it mean? This is a kind of a wrong idea about yourself. OK? This is a kind
of wrong idea about yourself where you view yourself as being outside of your
parts. OK? There's a part of me there's a Michael who's not my arms and my legs
and who's not even my mind but who's running the show. OK? Like a big boss
in a corporation. And all those parts are like little employees that I get to boss
around. You know?         You, arm, move over thereô. You, fingers, you know?
Open. Close. Ah, there, I'm the master. OK? And I'm somehow not them. You
see what I mean? It puts a distance between me and my body. I am bossing my
body around. Now I'm saying to my mind. Don't be jealous. OK? Today. Try to
control yourself. But there's some guy like the Wizard of Oz standing behind a
curtain. You know? And he's pulling all the levers and then you know I tell my
hand move. You know, I tell my mouth move. I tell my mind don't get jealous
today. You know? Uh. And then and then this is a belief that there's some guy
separate from those things. OK? Essentially separate from those things. There's
some guy named Michael. And he's he's telling the mind what to think. He's
telling the mind what to do. OK? Like a master and his servants. OK? This is a
viewpoint which is not held by any Buddhist school. Like by the time you get to
kindergarten Buddhist mentality, you're not supposed to think this anymore.
OK? We think it all the time. We live in thøat. OK? And I believe that if you think
about it. I grew up. Uh. You know, I grew up, People talked to me about soul.
You know when you're a kid and I used to read a lot. And and you read books
and you come to a new word and you ask mom. You know? I remember like
ration. I didn't know what ration meant you know like food? I'd go to mom.
What's What's ray-tee-en mean? You know? And they'd say, no no, it's ration.
And you'd say, what's it mean? You know I remember words being explained to
me. And you go and you say what's a soul? What's soul? This book says, "Put
your soul into it." You know? What's a soul? And your mom says well that's just
if there's a Michael who's like there invisible inside somewhere and even if they
cut your arm off they couldn't touch him and when you die, that Michael's
gonna' go to heaven. Or whenever you know. But but that's a special Michael.
You know? And and in a way you carry that with you. Ever since then. Uh, in
one sense. And in another sense you're alwaysú behind your mind and behind
your body. You think that you're in control. You think there's some guy who
runs the show like sitting in a cockpit behind your brain you know with all these
levers you know and and like telling the body what to do and telling the mind
what to do. YOu believe that . You hold that. Even if you say you don't. You do.
You know. You you have this self-awareness that you believe in OK? You
wouldn't want to say any other thing. And this is a subtle world view that we all
have. I think it's partly connected to the idea of soul. Uh Is there a part of
Michael which is not his body or his mind. You see? Is there a Pul Simba, right?
Is there a third possibility. You know? If you threw out the body and threw out
the mind. You know? Would there be anything of Michael left there? Is
thwrong. It doesn't work. If you keep holding it you will keep suffering. That's
the point here. Very subtle. The perfection of wisdom is to dump all these
stupid world view. They're very strong. You grew up with them. No one's ever
questioned them. You know? Nobody said. Tessie you're not Tessie you know?
Yes I'm Tessie Yes I'm Tessie. What are you talking about ? You know? No one's
ever questioned them. OK? Tonight we are. OK? That's the first one. No
Buddhist school even entertains this world view. They say Come On. Dump the
legs, dump the arms dump the tummy. What do you got left? You know. Dump
the head dump the brain dump the mind. What do you think, something's
gonna' be left? You know. They say, NO. No no no Buddhist school entertains
this. Master Shantideva gets to a very cute a a metaphor for emptiness later on.
He says thinÕk of a reed or a piece of bamboo. And start peeling the sides off.
You know? You have a stem and start and you know it's hollow inside. It's like a
platic straw. Start peeling pieces off the plastic straw and when you get to the
last piece what do you got left? You know? You got that hollow that was inside
right? I mean it's like Boom. Nothing. OK? If you start uh, same thing, you
know. We believe that if you strip away the mind and the body uh and all those
other things that there would still be some kind of Michael there. I'm not just my
body and my mind, OK? You hold that, you believe that. You believe there's
some guy behind it all. OK? First Wrong Idea.

NUMBER 2.
By the way we didn't even get to the nasty one of the natural one, OK? We're
talking about intellectual ones. You know? The nasty the the the inte , the
internal one is much nastier much harder much more slippery. OK?
Say Dulchen Chamedo Simba x2
Dulchen means atomic particle. What's aè Dulchen gyi Po? In Tibetan? Dulchen
gyi Po? (laughs). It's atomic bomb, ok? In the Tibetan newspaper it'll say
Dulchen gyi po, you know, OK? Dulchen means atomic particle. Chame means
partless, I mean infinitely small the smallest atomic particle OK? Chame means it
has it's partless you can never divide it it's so small you can never break it into
two parts infinitely small. Atoms OK? Chamedo Simba means to hold that that
that is what you really are. To hold that that is the basis of all matter of all
things. OK? Things are made of atoms. OK? Things are made of tiny little
atoms. OK? It's a world-view. OK? If you took apart David Sykes head (laughs)
Sorry. And you kept dividing those shiny pieces smaller and smaller then finally
you come down to something that really exists. You would come down to a , in
your mind you're thinking it's about a little smaller than a piece of sand right? I
mean when your parents told you about atoms. This is all stuff that This is like
òMr. Smith in the 6th Grade Science teacher, right?             He's the one who
brainwashed me into this one. OK? There's these little tiny uh things you know
called atoms. If you've got a couple oxygen ones and a carbon one, you're
healthy you know? Lose an ion or an electron you know you've got problems.
You know? And and that's the reality of you. That's who you are. That's what
really makes you up. You know? You can get down to those little tiny things
that if they're going good, everything's fine. And if there's a problem with them,
you're sick or something like that or it actually changes from iron into copper.
Wow. And they they teach you that and they blow up cities by by messing
around with these things. So you think wow that's real, it must be correct. You
know, OK? Seriously. Or people will walk on the moon because of this theory.
You know so it must be correct. You believe that. You believe that the ultimate
reality of my body is that it is made up of atoms. That's the basic buil÷ding block
of all the universe is atoms. You know. That's Mrs. What is her name? French
guy, anyway, chemistry teacher, Boulet. Uh, that was the that was the thing. You
know? All the world, you are made up of this infinitely small stuff called atoms.
And if you could get down to it. That's the key of understanding everything.
You know? That's what you are. You are made of little tiny atoms. That's the
ultimate reality of Winston McCullough. You know? You got so many ions of
this so many electrons of that? And that's why you're the way you are. OK? That
is your reality. And those are real. Those are objectively observably real. OK?
It's incorrect. OK? We gotta' talk about it. OK? We have to talk about it. It
doesn't work. You die if you think that. OK? Seriously. It doesn't work. It does
not explain the functioning of the world. It does not explain why you are here
and why you are suffering. It does not suffice to explain that. It does not allow
you to escape death and suffering in thisú life in this lifetime. That's a mist, It's a
mistake to think that way. OK? It's not functional, it's disfunctional. You know if
you had a car and somebody said, This is a new Mercedes. You know and you'd
say Great, you know and you'd say where's the keys, here's the keys you know
Get In you know and you'd say OK. Turn the key you know Nothing Happens
you say. Yeah but it doesn't work. You know? And they say but NO, NO, but
look it's a great Mercedes you know. You'd say I don't care how great it is it can't
get me anywhere. You know. I don't need it. It doesn't work. It doesn't function.
This world view doesn't work. OK? Can blow up a city apparently, you know? If
it really does it, that's another question but can it get you to enlightenment, can it
stop you from dying NOT At all and it never will. And you will suffer as long as
you hold that world view. It's dysf, it doesn't work for what a human being
needs which is total bliss and happiness. It doesn't work for the needs of
humanity to think Êthat you are atoms. OK? Is it? Can Buddhism world view
and the atomic world view coexist? NO. OK? NO. Alright? Because that assumes
that they are self-existent. OK? They're not talking to you about how the copper
atom came from your virtue. If it's carrying your phone conversation. OK?
They don't say anything about that. So it , so they're holding that copper atom to
be self existent. It doesn't work. It will never work . Why is the copper holding
your conversation over a wire? Has nothing to do with atomic particle. It has to
do with your virtue. It has to do with your past karma. And if your karma
wore out the same copper wouldn't carry that phone thing. And they'd say, OH,
you know unfortunately there's been an atomic disturbance and they're not
carrying phone messages anymore you know? It's very, you know it's hard it's
very hard but until your mind shifts. By the way , those ideas that I'm attacking.
You weren't born with them . They were br»ainwashed into you and they don't
work. And you can switch to another one that does work. It doesn't mean that
you have to attack every scientist you meet. NO. You know. But if they see that
you're extremely happy and that you're not suffering you know , you know
they might get it or something you know. That's the point. Yeah.

(Student) unclear
(Laughs) She said we all accept the validity of science. You can see that it works.
It doesn't work. OK?
I say it doesn't work. I say it can't bring you what you want. I mean you're
saying I can achieve my desired results by using this principle called atomic
theory. You know? I can achieve what I want. I can I can understand the
universe. I can understand things. I can make things happen the way I want to.
BULL SHIT. You know? BULLSHIT. Really BULLSHIT you know. You suffer.
You can't make things happen the way you want to. The whole humanity is
killing eachother. The whole humanity is un§happy. Humanity is dying.
Humanity is getting all these diseases. It doesn't work. That's not the way. See
what I mean?

(student) Unclear
I am saying that that it's
(student) unclear.

Oh there there are non self existent sub atomic particles. Yeah. Yeah. If you
understand their, how they're not self-existent. Then you can be a real scientist.
And then you can create anything you want. Uh, I'm disputing the part of it that
doesn't include the theory of good deeds and bad deeds. Seriously. Quite
seriously. Dead serious. Life serious. OK? Something like. Very serious. Am I
saying atomic particles don't exist? NO. Am I saying there doesn't exist any self-
existent from its own side atomic particle which is partless and which is the basis
of all you know the universe? YES. I'm saying exactly that. There is no such thing
done. That thing doesn't exist. And your mind has for beginningless time
grasped to that. And 1/4I'm not kidding. And I'm not exaggerating. And I'm
I'm not wrong either. And I'm I'm getting up here to tell you that because
because it will save you. You know. It would . Yeah. Yeah.
What I'm saying is that yeah there are sub atomic particles. There's a thing you
can call subatomic particles. But only because your mind is imposing that idea on
it because of your past karma. Period. If it wasn't for that, there would be no
subatomic particles. You are you're struggling cause you're holding that to be
self..you're number 2. Really. No Go ahead. Go ahead. No you grew up as a
scientist. It's not your fault. LAUGHS. Go ahead Go ahead go ahead.
(student) unclear.
If an if an Arya uh studied science. No yeah they are incongruent, they are.
Ultimately, they are. It's Pom She. Pom She means you know, when I give a
lecture in front of . If there were really a room full of Quakers here I would not
be saying this right now. Laugh. No eand it's called Pom She. Pom she means
You fit the you fit the presentation of Buddhism to the audience that you have.
Seriously. Seriously. But but is it true that atomic particles exist in the way they
are believed to exist by every scientist? Not at all. Not at all. And that is why
they suffer. And that's why the guys looking into an electron microscope is
unhappy and will die. Uh. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's wrong. It's
dysfunctional. It's like a Mercedes that doesn't turn on. You gotta' think about it.
They all come down to the habit of seeing things as self-existent. All the, all,
every belief, all those beliefs come down to misunderstanding the basic nature of
any object. You see? It's very profound. That's getting close to Buddhism.
(Laughs) The uncertainty principle, right? That's OK. OK.

(student) unclear
Uh, you caun call it the Holding that Atomic Particles are infinitely small and
that's reality.
(student) unclear
You could say that. But now you get what I mean. This is not some stupid idea
that was held in the 14th century, you know, eighth century in India. Scientists
have this, we have this. Seriously. And it doesn't work. It doesn't explain the
way things work. It doesn't explain the universe. It doesn't explain your life. It
doesn't explain why a car hits somebody. It doesn't explain why your aunt got
cancer. It it doesn't explain it. It explains what you observe. It doesn't explain
where it's coming from. OK? Uh. Let me do ....one more and then I'll entertain a
few questions. OK?

By the way hopefully I'm gonna' describe the correct here right? (Laughs)
Otherwise you go home viewless it's like having no pants on or something.
(Laughs) OK?

What I mean broñ is you believe in science cause it seems to work. And I'm
saying it doesn't work. That's all.

(student) unclear

I understand. You're saying that scientists kind of caught up to this way of
thinking because they agreed to the fact that uh they have come to understand
that by observing an event, uh, you actually affect its reality. And if it were
unobserved by you its reality would've been different. Um, it doesn't bring into
account morality. You know? It doesn't, they're not talking that uh if you look
on it while you're angry it's gonna' be affected one way, if you look on it while
you're having compassion, reality will actually change to become something else.
If they, if quantum theory will add that in the next few weeks, I will accept
Quantum Theory. Seriously, I'm not kidding. I am absolutely not kidding. You
know? If you don't get to that part. You didn't get it. You know? And it won't
function if you don't get to that part.

(student) unclear
Oh yeah. No. I'd say it'ªs less of a total screw up. It's like 50% (laughs). Seriously.
We're talking life or death, we're not just joking around about you know, are 3
billion people wrong about the way they think. You know? Actually, YES. You
know. Uh. Yeah. Why? Because people die and suffer. And you don't have to.
It's it's due to a misperception. He didn't say in his definition of Denzin Semgye
that 80% of the population has it or 60% or 30%. He said 100 %. OK? You're
born with it. OK? And you will, you will struggle to defend some belief because
ultimately, which is to see things as self-existent. All of those world views that
Mrs. Melvin taught me or all those other people. They all come down to seeing
things as self-existent. Seriously. OK?

Let me finish the second one. OK. Say Shipa Kechink Chame Tu Simba. OK.
Shepa means your mind. OK? Your mind. Kechink means the instants of your
mind. OK? Your mind is coming iÓnto existence and going out of existence. It's
beginning and ending by the moment. Right? It's a series of karmas going off.
You know? So fast that it looks like time, itself. So fast that it looks like time
passing by. It's like a movie. I don't know how many frames it takes to get the
eye fooled. But I, does anybody? I don't know. I don't know how many frames
it is a second that you need to flash by.
(Student) 24
24. Before the eye thinks it's moving. But it's not. It's a bunch of individual
frames. OK? Uh. Chame means partless. Nothing smaller. An instant of
consciousness which is infinitely short. Now we're not talking space as we were
with the atoms. Now we're talking time. Infinitely short durations of the mind
itself. Of consciousness itself. Dzimba means to hold that there could ever be
such a thing. To believe that what's called my lifetime is a series of events, you
know, of awarenesses of certain events which have their own reality. Vçery
subtle. OK? By the way these last two are Buddhist viewpoints. By lower
schools who are wrong. OK?            To believe that those very brief instants,
milliseconds of consciousness which make up my life time over the stretch of my
lifetime forty-something years now. That each one of those things is a discreet
real duration of my mind. That it's real and that my life of real moments like
that. That there are objective moments of consciousness that altogether add up
to forty-something years of Michael Roach's life and that's what I'm made of .
And that's who I am. I am the sum total of all the instants of my life of my mind.
OK? By the way. The school before that is saying that Michael Roach is the sum
total of all those nice little atoms in his body. And the school before that is
saying Michael Roach is this Wizard of Oz behind the curtain running that body
and mind. OK? Like that. Three wrong ideas about who you are. Do you have
them? You bet you have them. OK? I don't give(tm) them names. We can give
them names. Uh..... First one is you can say Master and Servant Complex. I
guess. You know? To believe that there's some guy outside your body and mind
who's running the show. We'll call it the Wizard of Oz theory. Uh Number two
is Atomic Theory. Number 3 is I don't know what you want to call it but That
my life is made up of all the moments of my life but each one of those moments
is real. It's real. It has its own reality independent of me. I am made up of a you
know 65x40x 52z7x24x60 moments of my life. But those are reality in the same
way that atoms have reality. You know. I can break it down to that but when I
get down to that shortest moment of my perception of my life. That's a real
thing that's independent of me that has its own objective existence. Independent
of my mind. OK? Those are three kinds of wrong views. Each one is more
subtle than the one before. K The last two are held by Buddhist schools the first
one is not held by a Buddhist school. OK? I'll answer a few questions and then
you gotta' take a break. You can't go home without any pants on. OK? Yeah

(student) unclear
Yeah. Oh yeah. They do. Some schools hold both some schools you can always
find two guys who'll believe almost anything. You know?
(student) unclear
Yeah. You could say that.



Unclear.... not somehow connected to his mind and his body. OK? Not not to be
found in there somewhere. But the Middle Way school says that we are further
neither any single one of our parts nor the whole of the parts. OK? Now we'll
talk about those two separately. Alright? Is Michael Roach Michael Roach's little
finger? The answer is... NO. OK? Next question. I went up to Janis Brady who's
over here now and who's twenîty-something approaching what? Anyway,
when she was this tall. I think she was six or something or five and it was after
Madyumika class in New Jersey and I was feeling really mystical, you know.
And I went up to her and I said Janis, am I my hand? And she said "NO." And I
say, you know, She used to sit in all the classes with her mother. And then I said,
but Janis, Am I all my parts together? And she says, Yes. And you know,
Madyumika says NO. And I was like and I couldn't answer her you know. It
was like somebody going TSA you know. And I was like, and then here's this
kid you know and this kid like she said "Of course you are, you are the sum of
your whole, of your parts. You are the whole of your parts. That's what you are.
Don't be silly. " And I'm like. I couldn't answer her. It was so funny. I went and
made tea or something you know. I tried to change (laughs) I tried to change
the subject. Now I figured it out. OK? So. Here you go. (laughs)

Nagarjuna, The Buddha, Thõe Dalai Lama, everybody says you are not the sum
of your parts. OK. You are not. Why? Uh. Think about it. If you were in the
Friday night class, you already know the answer. OK? Maybe we'll use the same
pants so you remember. (laughs)

Uh. Is the pen the sum of the black and the white and the cylindrical. You see
what I mean? This is very delicate. This is very profound. And and when all
these Madyumika reasonings. If you understand one you can get them all. If
you understand this one you'll always get all the other ones. OK? Am I, is the
pen the sum of its parts? Is the pen the sum of the top the bottom, the ink, the
thing in the middle, the cap. This thing here. Is all that stuff together the pen.
And Madyumika says NO. And that's the hard one to me. You know. It's easy
to say. It's not neither. It' not both. It's easy to say it's not any one of the parts.
But that one about it's not being all the parts together as Janis pointed out, that's
hard. You know. But it's not haùrd if you were in the class on Friday. What
what is still incomplete? My perception of it as a pen. My imposing the idea of
pen on it. Something coming from me. Until I think of it as a pen it won't work
as a pen and it's not a pen. OK? If it were a pen because it was the sum of the
parts which you could see in my hand, then any being entering this room from a
roach to a dog to a cat to an Eskimo from the 11th century would say. OH.
Magic marker. Vis a vis Company. You know. If it was coming from its side. If
penness was its nature. If it had any nature of its own. Then any person who
entered this room would immediately recognize it as that because it would be
emanating penness. But it's not. Until I think of it as a pen it's not a pen. OK?
Uh. And I think. I think as a Buddhist who wants to get to a Tantric paradise in
this life. There's one step more you have to go. Why am I thinking of it as a pen?
Why, why does my mind organize those colors and shapes into a pen. Karma,
OK? If ÉI like the pen, it's good karma. If I'm frustrated that that pen hasn't run
out of ink yet and I can't get home yet and I'll probably miss my bus if that guy
goes on much longer, it's a bad karma. But it's coming from me. It's penness. It
does not have a quality of being pen by itself. OK? That's profound. That's
really profound. Now you can affect everything in the world. Now you can
adjust your reality. What are the forces that could change even those very solid
realities like the one called Michael Roach's death. OK? I mean what would it
take to change that? Powerful good karma. You know? Really powerful good
karma. But if I had it, now I could change that thing called my death. I could
transform it into something else. And that's the whole idea of the secret
teachings. What Rinpoche's been teaching in the last few months. Shilam Drewa
Sum Jangshi. That's that's it. That's exactly what he's been talking about. You
know. You do have tûhe potential. Because because my death is empty.
Because I am not the sum of the parts. You see what I mean? Because my death
is not the sum of all my body shutting down. But rather depends heavily on
what? My projection of it from my own mind. Now death becomes something
that's not necessarily true. OK? It's very profound. OK? So that's the answer to
Janis' question. Sorry it took so long. OK?

I don't know. It's been going on for a long time. After class between you and
me, OK? Alright. Here we go. Sorry. Anybody that has a burning question can
come to me after class and I'll probably tell them to book an appointment with
Phuntsok. Uh. And everybody knows there's no such thing. OK?
Uh. Why does the non-Buddhist opponent in the ninth chapter say that the
person must be unchanging? They say. I don't like this thing about that the
person is. Buddhism says that you don't last for more than a millisecond. You
know? Within five minutes you're a totally different thing? OK? You are
ûchanging like that. Why, by the way? You are the sum of your karmic seeds
going off. You see? It's very cool. You exist. You consist of all those
perceptions going off in your mind. OK? It's those 65 perceptions going off in
your mind that makes you who you are. And that's all you are. You are not the
atoms; you are not the perceptions; you are not some guy who's outside running
the show. You are only the sum total of those perceptions forced on you by
your past karma and that's all you are. If you happen to see atoms, or if you
happen to be aware of some mind or if you happen to get the feeling that you're
running the show. That's only because it's a projection. OK? That's. That's very
profound. You have to get used to that. That makes all things possible. Anyone
in this room could become a Tantric Deity now. You see what I mean? It's very
cool. But you have to be moral which is the hard part. OK. Uh. The anser is.
Yeah?
(student) unclear.
Say it again? What
(student) unclear.
Vüiewpoint number 3? No not at all. No. That's talking about self-existent
moments of your mind. This is talking about imposed by your past karma
perception of moments of your mind. There's a big difference. OK? Uh. The
non-Buddhist school that says that that the person should be unchanging says
the problem with this Buddhist theory that you are constantly changing. And I
got sidetracked because I was trying to explain to you that the real reason you
change is that your perceptions forced on you by your past karma are constantly
changing. OK? They say that if the person is something that begins and end by
the moment then the person that committed the karma is gone by the time that
the result of the karma comes back. Like if I kill a bug on uh October 25th uh
and t. OK? That is a different person. So where's the connection? You know.
Why is the guy two years from now living off the sins of the father. Right? Why
is the guy two years from now suffering because of something that somebody
did two years that he's not connected to in any way? That's very, it's also subtle,
you have to work on it OK? Why is the guy in 1999 suffering from stuff that
Michael Roach did in 1997 if he's a totally different being by then? You know.
How can he be suffering consequences of something that somebody else did
about a zillion changes ago? It's a different guy. This is what the non-Buddhists
say. Then they say. You must be UNCLEAR. You must be some unchanging
thing. There must be some an unchanging soul called Leon's soul. And the soul
stores the karma and the soul experiences the karma at the end and it must
never be changing. There must be a part of Leon that afteÌr you take away his
mind and all his body parts that's still there because somebody has to experience
the karma later. And it damn well better be the same guy because it's not justice
for someone else to be suffering. OK? They say that way. They say it that way,
OK?

How does Master Shantideva answer them? And this is the last thing tonight.
Almost. OK?
Say Le Chepe Judang Jebu Nyowe Juki Kangsak Ze Kade.

He's gonna' give three answers to these guys. Here's the first one. By the way
it's not a stupid question. OK? It's not a stupid question. It's very important. OK?
If if I'm just a bunch of karmas going off. Then who is it that collects the karma?
If I'm just the karmas going off, where's the guy who collected the karma and
where's the guy who's experiencing the result of the karma. You know. Where
is he? Cause I like it I like it better to think of my karmic seeds like my hands
and my arms. I'm the boss. I'm here and they belong to me. Don'ät tell me I am
them. That's a little uncomfortable. It gets a little weird. You know. Don't tell
me I am the sum of all my karmic seeds going off. That's too uncomfortable. I
want to be a person who has the seeds up here. And when I do purification.
Something goes away up here. Don't tell them I am them going off. Don't tell
me there's nothing more to me than going off. That's very uncomfortable. You
gotta' get lost in that. I want to be a person who has the karmic seeds. Ok? And
they say, they're complaining to the Buddhists. They say if you are the karmic
seeds. Who's got them and who loses them when they finish. You know. Ok?
By the way. There's no contradiction to say you are them when you collect them
and you are them when you go off. But they have a problem with that and it
feels uncomfortable. OK? They think that there somebody that has them and
then loses them. OK? So we say to them. Hey, look, Mr... I believe it's the
Samkyas, OK? or somebody like tðhat it's a non-Buddhist school. And they say,
Look Mr. Non-Buddhist, uh, if you think about it, Le Chepa means when you do
the karma like crushing a bug, smashing a bug. Ju means at that time. Dang
means and. Jebu means karmic result like getting mugged on the street. OK?
Seriously. Alright? Nyowe means you experience that result. You get mugged,
you experience the mugging. Nyowe. Ju, the time, that time. By the way, don't
think of Karma as uh, accounting as some of your life, you know? Don't think of
karma as the reason why you didn't get a promotion last year. Karma is
responsible for every hair in your eyebrows. Karma is responsible for every
breath you take. Karma is responsible for every thought you think. Everything
is. Don't think of yourself as a person who is bumping into karma every twenty
minutes or every hour or every thirty days or so, it's not like that. You are a
result of karma. You are karma going off. You're made of that. And every
experience in your whole öworld is that. Get used to it. OK? You don't have
any other reality. You are not a bunch of atoms. Or a bunch of moments of
consciousness. Or a driver standing behind it. You are the karma going off.
OK? Alright. Nyowe Ju Ki. Kansak means that person, actually those two
people, Ze Kade. Ze Kade means they are essentially different. All he's saying to
the non-Buddhists right now is like, Look. You want to say there's some guy
who's collecting the karma? And you want to say there's some other guy uh
who's experiencing the karma and you have a problem that we say they're
different because they're changing every minute? What? Do you think they're
the same? Do you think they're the same? Do you think it's the same guy?
What do you think? They can't say it's the same guy. OK? They can't say it. Even
if they say there's some core inside you somewhere around your stomach. I
remember when my mom talked about soul, I saw it as some kind of crystalline
thing that was somewhere between my¨ heart and my stomach. You know? If
you believe that there's some thing here, Michael, who's independent of his body
and his mind. There's some core Michael there then are you telling me, Mr. Non-
Buddhist, that the core Michael when he crushed the bug and the core Michael
when he experienced it are the same thing are the same thing? Exactly the same
thing? In the same time. The guys would say, NO. Of course they're different.
One happened in 1997, one happened in 1999. Then the Madyumika says Well
then you have the same problem we have. You know. Ok, you're not saying it
changes from instant to instant, but if he's not the same one then it's not there.
Poor old core of 1997, I mean poor old core of 1999 is having to experience the
bad karma of poor old, poor old, nasty old core of 1997 who collected the bad
karma. You have the same problem we have. Forget this idea of a soul. Forget
this idea of some independen˜t Michael, uh, who's not my body and not my
mind and who didn't change from 1979 to 1999. It doesn't make sense. Of
course he's different. And you agree he's different, right? And they say, yeah
we agree. So don't give me this shpiel about who's gonna collect the karma,
who's gonna experience the karma. You have the same problem that we do.
That's his first objection to the non-Buddhists.

Yeah.
(student) unclear
Yeah. Ok. Ok. The non-Buddhist says, the non-Buddhist says, let's say you kill
an ant in 1997. 1999 you cut your finger slicing some bread. They are totally
connected. OK? They are absolutely connected. Don't think that you ever cut
your finger by accident. There is no such thing. How are they connected?
Because that guy was two years ago. He's totally different. You know. He had
more hair. He was younger. You know. I'm a totally different person now.
Where is the connection bþetween me and that guy? Ok, they say that. They say
therefore the person must be some unchanging part. There must be something
about Michael Roach in 1997 that didn't change up to 1999 because it's not right
that a different person should have to suffer from a different person's bad deed.
It's not right. If you Buddhists are right. If I'm changing by the millisecond, I
changed totally by two years later. So who's experiencing the karma who was
guilty of committing the karma? OK. If there's not some soul or some person
who's independent of all this other Michael stuff. OK? And you believe that.
You think that way. OK? That's their first suggestion.
So Master Shantideva says look. What you call the core Michael of 1997 and the
core Michael of 1999, are they happening at different times? Of course. When
was that guy? 1997 when the deed was committed. Oh when is this guy? 1999
when the result is experienced. They're not the same right? Right. So you have
the same problem that we have. What are yþou, why are you complaining to
us? Tsupa Me means, Tsupa Du medum in the end he's gonna' say. Your own
argument is stupid because you believe everything that you say we believe.
OK? First Objection.

Second Objection is shorter, luckily.
(Laugh) I just want to see if you put your donor on to make notes. Go ahead.
Never mind.
(student) unclear
Yeah. You are only the goings off of your. Yeah.
(student) unclear.
Um. What I mean is don't think of yourself as a person who's having this karma
going off in their mind. The person is the karma going off in their mind. Yeah
it's the.
(student) What I'm asking....unclear
Oh. Uh. Data being presented to your mind and your mind organizing that data
into a thing called John Stilwell over an extended period of time. Due to the
things you did in the past. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there any data beyond those
conceptualizations. Now that's a big debate. And ultimately no. But that's
another. We're gonna' get into that later. OK?

Say Gyi Du su De bu Nyo Mi si.
è
OK. Gyu Du Su means at the time of the cause. At the time of the cause. Debu
means the result. Meaning getting mugged. OK? The cause is killing a bug or
something. Alright? Nyo means to experience that result Mi Si means it's not
possible, it's totally impossible. To put it into plain English, it's totally impossible
that you experience the result at the very moment that you committed the
karma. OK? Why would Master Shantideva say such a thing that's so obvious.
You know? It's obvious that when you give away five dollars even to His
Holiness the Dalai Lama, you don't get rich the next morning. OK? But you do
get rich from that. OK? But it doesn't happen at the same moment. It's
impossible. Buddhism says that's impossible. The result has to come after the
cause. There has to come a growing process. Why does Master Shantideva say
that? Because the non-Buddhists come up with this thing. They say Uh, OK,
you're right. The person in 1997 is different than the person in 1ò999 so we
won't say that. Let's say uh the guy in 1997 experiences the result. The guy
experiencing the result is the guy in 1997. And Master Shantideva says Come
On, you know. Is the result because of 1999 is gonna' happen to the guy in 1997?
OK? They're trying to get out of the fact that the self changes. And that the self
is not what you thought it was. It's not some soul or some guy who's
independent of your body and mind which is changing by the instant. OK?
OK. Alright.
What he's saying.         Master Shantideva is saying, look, either the guy is
experiencing the karma, the result of the karma two years later, or the guy is the
same guy. Now which one do you want. Who's gonna experience the karma. Is
it the guy two years later a different guy or the same guy? You see if they say
different guy they have a problem. Cause they were complaining to Master
Shantideva about different guy. But they say some guy. He's gotta be the guy
back in 1997 because a millisecond later he's a differe÷nt guy. And if you say
some guy then the moment you crush the bug, your ribs should start to break.
That would be a hell of a lot easier. Life wouldn't be so bad. Seriously. Nagarjuna
says Arya Nagarjuna said one of the worst things about karma is the time delay.
You know. It would be so kind of karma. If Mr. Karma would behave then
when you wouldn't go around asking Michael Roach, can I kill the bugs in my
apartment? The minute you started to step on them, your rib would start to
break. No seriously. It's exactly what really happens. You get. You giggle
because it sounds silly. Worse than that happens. You know. But if it happened
that as you start to crush a bug your ribs started to break, the world would be
moral from tonight. You know. It's very interesting. If people saw how karma
really works the world would be infinitely moral. You know. If the minute you
cheated somebody your own bank account was wiped out in a stock market
crash. You know. Which by the way is created by the collÑective karma of
everyone who has stocks, right? You wouldn't cheat anybody anymore. If the
minute you lied to somebody you know like your head split open or something,
you'd stop doing it, probably. OK. Seriously. Seriously. There's this time delay.
So Master Shantideva says, which way do you non-Buddhists want it you know?
The guy's different or the guy's the same. If the guy's the same then the moment
you step on a bug then your own ribs are cracking, right? And the guy says well
that's not the way it works. So he says so it's a different guy, right? Yeah. So
your own self is changing, right? Right. So you don't stay the same right?
Right. So there is no permanent Michael Roach. There is no self-standing Michael
Roach. Michael Roach is a costantly changing thing. You know. (laughs) They
don't want to say that. They don't want to say that. Then I might have to get
into accepting that Michael Roach is a projection which is constantly shiftingæ
because of my own karma OK? OK. Let me go a little bit further. I'll give you
the last one and then we'll do some debate.

By the way, I'll cut you some slack. This question is not on the quiz, OK? Those
last three things are not on I'll cut you some slack, OK? Homework question
number 6 will not be on the quiz, OK? Cause it's too much, I think, it's a little
much, OK? It will be on your Homework.

Say Gyin Jikla Le Chepa Po Dang Je Bu Chepa Po Te Run.

Gyun Jikla. Gyun means stream and I'll talk about it in a minute. Gyun means a
stream like a continuum. Jik is one. La means on that stream. Le means karma.
Chepa Po means the person who does the karma. Dang means and. Je Bu
means the result or the consequence of that karma like getting mugged, ok.
Chepa Po means here the one who experiences the result. Ten Run in this case
as you read in the commentary means it's OK to call him that. OK? It's OK to say
that. OK? What does it mean? This is our final answer to the Nñon-Buddhists.
What are they trying to prove?            That there's some Michael Roach who's
permanent unchanging inner core crystal little thing. I always saw it as kind of
long you know I don't know why. The soul had to be long. And it was clear
cause when they cut open your body they don't find anything. That is the way I
thought of it when my mom explained it to me. And I definitely thought it was
between my stomach and my heart somewhere. You know. OK? I mean it was
in there somewhere. They say there is such a thing. We say no you are the
constant flow of your karma. You are the constant shifting of your karma. You
are nothing more than that. It's not like you have that karma. You are that
karma. OK? If you want to be a Tantric Deity, you better collect some good
karma. Then there's no problem. You can do it because then, that's all there is.
OK? So deep down inside we say you don't have to talk about it like that, you
don't have to talk about anything like that. We can call the ÷flow of your karma
over a seventy year period, it's ok to call that Michael Roach. NO problem. OK?
The person who crushes the bug and the person who experiences the mugging,
OK, they are connected by their flow of Karma. And that's no problem. You can
call them that. You can call them that. You know. You can think of them that
way. Why? Why would you think of them that way? Forced by your past
karma. OK? To perceive what? To perceive a thing called Michael Roach over
the length of my life? Is it self-existent? Isn't it true that Michael Roach is self-
existently flowing through his life? NO. Why not? There's people with mental
illness who can't remember yesterday.             There's people who are totally
disconnected, disjuncted from each moment. They don't have the karma to
perceive themselves as a person going through time. OK? That's also a karmic
result. It's not necessarily true that everyone has that. Probably animals have less
of a of a perception of that then humans, for example. Thùey are living more in
the moment. OK? But it's OK. And it's quite proper to say that my perception
of myself killing the bug and my perception of myself getting mugged and all
the perceptions between. It's OK to call it Michael Roach. OK? Is it ultimately or
self-existently Michael Roach? NO. Is it Michael Roach because I'm thinking of it
that way? YES. Are all my parts Michael Roach by themselves? NO. Are they
Michael Roach when I'm forced to think about them as Michael Roach? YES. Is
there anything else to Michael Roach besides that? NO. But I got this thing. Oh
that's a Gak Cha and emptiness is the absence of that. You see? It's cool. What is
emptiness? It's the fact that nothing else is ever there anyway. OK? That's the
emptiness of Michael Roach. There is no Michael Roach except for that. What I
perceive to be Michael Roach. What? All those parts. What are the parts? All
the separate experiences in my life. OK? Are all the separate experiences in my
life together Michael Roaûch? NO. Not until my karma forces me to think of
them that way. Then they are. Then that's a perfect Michael Roach. What's the
point of all this philosophical junk? You know. There's a big point.          If I can
keep my vows. If I can keep my my good way of life and if I could be good to
others. If I could have compassion. That means I can change into a different kind
of being. And the bad karma that made me. The bad karma that's going to
produce my death, I can wipe it out and I can replace it. I don't have to die. OK?
I don't have to die like that. That's a silly thing to say because I've never seen
anyone that ever did that. Of course you haven't seen them. You didn't even
collect enough good karma to see such a being. OK? It's not crazy to say that
you would never see such a being. So because you haven't seen it there's no
such thing, right? OK? Alright? Seriously. OK? Is it likely that there would be
such beings. Sounds logical. How can I confirm it? Get ethical enough and
cûlean up your life enough that you can see them. How do I do that? Keep your
book. If you don't know how to keep your book, come on Monday nights. Uh.
What if it's not true? OK? What if all this tonight's discussion is not true? What if
all those other Denzin Kuntaks, those other world views are correct. You know
one of them is correct and not the one I've been describing. Well just go and die.
You know? Really. That's all there is left. You know? What do you have to look
forward to? Getting old? Losing every possession you have. You know. Getting
to a stage where nobody even remembers your name anymore. And that's
happening to everybody else in your life. In unstoppably, indisputably, and
Buddha and all those other religions that say that there's anything else it's just
wrong. I say it's not true. You know. The other world views are supporting
that. It's not true. It really isn't true. You don't have to be like that. You don't
have to die like that. You can stop it. How long does i÷t take to get a taste of it?
Uh. Practice well for maybe six months, a year. Really well, seriously. You
would really start to get a taste for it. You could start to manipulate to your
reality in a way that you recognize. You know. You would say this is too much
to be coincidence. Now something weird is happening you know. Something
I'm doing is making things happen. You know. There comes a point in your
own personal practice where you say. Now that was too much. You know.
(Laugh) You know what I mean? Really. And you start to confirm the truth of
these things. You can not do it without practicing. You know. And then people
practice half assed. I had somebody at break tell me, I didn't have time to
meditate yesterday. Don't come and tell me you didn't have time to meditate.
What am I supposed to do about it? It's not like there's any God who can give
you an excu, you know write a letter to your parents you know say Sorry, uh,
they're gonna' suffer in samsara for 10 more years cauÓse they didn't have time
to meditate. You know. Please excuse them. There's no. I can't do that. Right?
Don't tell me that. I don't, you know, I can't do anything about it You know if
you don't practice, it'll never happen. YOU know you can confirm its nonproof
by not practicing. Then you'll never know. OK? Go on the way you are. By the
way, you have nothing to lose by practicing. The worst thing it could do is make
you a nicer person. You know. The worst thing it could do is like you're not
gonna kill anybody steal anything, drink alcohol, etcetera. That's the worst thing
that could happen. You're happier and it's cheaper not to do all that stuff. So
that's the worst thing that could happen. Ok one more thing then we'll stop.

Uh. So what is they got to the end and mr. Non-Buddhist says, OK, Mr. Buddhist,
how do you explain all this stuff? OK? How do you explain how karma works?
Alright? If you're so smart, you tell me. And here's Mr. Maçdyumika's answer.
Uh there's a mistake here. OK? This is a mistake. You should cut that letter. We
have to fix that. OK? I also misspelled in Friday night class the Dak shi and I'll
spell it for you correctly next Friday night class. It's spelled four different ways in
Tibetan and I spelled it a new way so. (Laughs) We're checking the computer
and everyone's misspelling it but not the way I did. OK?

So say Cha She Ki Tsog Pa La Ten Ne Tan Ne Tap Sam.

This is the ultimate view. OK? You want one? Here it is. Alright. This is how
things really happen. This is how the me really exists. This is what you really are.
You are not ultimately a bunch of atoms. That's not your final mode of
existence. OK? Are there atoms in Wilson, Winston's body? YES there are. Uh. Is
that. If you can get down to the last atom and the last electron and ion, would
you find Winston's ultimate mode of existence. No. You gotta' go one more
step. OK? And by going that one more step you can reƒach a tantric paradise in
this lifetime. OK? OK what is it? Cha She means parts. OK? The parts.
Winston's head, Winston's arm, Winston's leg, Winston's mind, Winston's
emotions, Winston's thoughts and the idea of Winston. OK? Cha She means the
parts. Tsog Pa means the sum of the parts. Cha She Ki Tsog Pa means the sum
of the parts which with a pen is what? The top, the tube, the ink thing, the tip,
the little thing here, you know, all of it, OK? They're all the parts together. Cha
She Ki Tsog Pa La Ten Ne means Ten Ne means based on those parts, based on
the sum of the parts, OK? The sum of the parts is the basis. OK? The sum of the
parts is the basis. OK? This is the profound. This sentence reflects the Buddhist
belief of how all reality exists. OK? It's cool. OK? Tsog Pa La Ten Ne. Tan Nye
Tap Sam. Tan Nye means in this case, a concept of the mind. A concept imposed
oÀn the parts by the mind. OK? Normally Tan Nye means term or name. Here it
refers and in all Madyumika, it refers to the idea or the thought, the projection.
OK? Tan Nye is a projection. The projection of the mind. Tap Sam means it's
nothing more than a projection. OK? Based on the parts. Imposed on the parts.
Superimposed on the parts. OK? I'll go over it again.
(student) Unclear
Yeah. I will. I will. Yeah. Here's what it really means. The way this pen really
exists is that there does exist a bunch of parts out there but then I think of it as
pen and then it's a pen. OK? The real mode of existence of this pen is that the
collection of the parts serves as the basis and then my mind supplies the idea pen
and then there's a pen. But only then is there a pen. The sum of the parts of the
pen is not a pen until I think of it as the pen. How's that? The sum of the parts of
the pen is not a pen until I conceive of it as a pen. OK? What's that ^got to do
with my life? I don't care about that stuff. You were supposed to teach me how
to be calm and meditate and stuff like that? NO no no. Now talk about you.
You know. You don't have to be a person who is getting older and who is
gonna die. You don't have to be that because what you are is not some reality
out there in your atoms. What you. The reality of you is how your mind is
forcing you to see yourself. And you can change that. How? Be moral. Keep
your vows. Be compassionate. You know. Be kind to other people. You know.
In an ultimately serious way. And you will see your body change. You know.
You will be forced to see a different kind of body. This kind of body is a result of
crappy karma. Got it? This projection of this wrinkly hand and these skinny
arms and hair and all that flaky stuff. You know. This is a result of crummây
karma. You know. If my karma improves I will be forced to see this as different
as as a different thing. If my karma gets lousier I'll break my arm or I'll get
cancer earlier than I would've. OK? If as I live my life longer I am less kind less
compassionate less moral I'll actually see myself get sicker more quickly. If I can
reverse that and be more kind more moral more compassionate then I I can
actually get to a point where I will see Manjushri's arm or Chen Ray Zig's arm or
the Dalai Lama's arm or some holy being, Ken Rinpoche's arm. You know I will
see a tantric deity's arm. OK? I saw Ken Rinpoche. He just fell down. He's got
like a broken rib. I don't want to be like that. Forget it. How does he see
himself? You have no idea. You know. That's what we're talking about. How
you see the Dalai Lama is your problem. How he sees himself is his problem.
How he sees himself is totally different than the way you see him. OK? Alright.
Uh.

Is there any other me thanï the one I just described? You gotta' get used to this
question. OK? This is the 9:50 Question. OK? Is there any other me than the one I
just described? Is there a Michael Roach's body a Michael Roach's arm that exists
out there? And that I can not do anything about. It's gonna get old it's gonna rot
in some hole in the ground somewhere and bugs are gonna eat it. You know. Is
that always the case is it necessarily the case? Is there an arm that's out there
whether or not I'm thinking about it in a certain way? There is no such arm.
You've just established emptiness. That is the logic which establishes emptiness.
If you do that often enough you will see emptiness directly. 20 minutes. You're
out of here. You know what I mean? Not just 10 minutes OK? It's cool.
Seriously. Ok, keep thinking like that. Keep asking yourself, is there an arm out
there that does not exist through my projections? Is there an arm out there that
can not be adjusted if I live a good life? And the answer Wis NO. And you just
discovered emptiness. They say. This is seeking a self-existent thing and coming
up empty-handed. Seeking a self-existent thing and coming up empty handed is
exactly that. That's the logic which proves emptiness. You just went through it.
The last example, Master Shantideva says, and that was his example. He says
keep peeling away the skin of the bamboo and at the end you reach the inside
which is nothing. Keep trying to find some Michael Roach which doesn't exist by
my mind being forced to organize certain colors and shapes a certain way. Try
to find a different XMichael Roach like those non-Buddhists. They want some
little Michael Roach in here that doesn't change, you know, the soul, something
like that. Keep trying to find that, you won't come up with anything. There is
no such Michael Roach. Thank God. You know. If there was, we'd be in trouble.
You couldn't reach Tantric Paradise. You know? You couldn't get there. You
know? Thank Goodness there is no such thing. OK? The lack of that thing is
emptiness. OK? OK. We'll stop there. Alright. I figure if I go on long enough.
No one will want to ask a question. Cause they're too tired.