ACI 1 «Основные учения буддизма», занятие 8

Course I, Class 8: How to Generate Bodhichitta
Aug 5, 1993
Transcribed by: Louise Rosenthal

I think the most exciting benefit is the last one which was what?

[student: [unclear] ]

Yeah, {sig chig la sang gya}, in one life you can become a buddha. And it makes
sense if, if. if karma is true, for you to achieve a place where everyone around
you was holy, and all the world around you was something...paradise, then you
would have to do some kind of a virtue that affected everyone. That's the only
way it could happen, karmically, you would have to do some kind of virtue, you
have to have some kind of state of mind that, that was virtuous towards
everyone around, everyone in the world, for you to experience that karmic
result, period. And if, so if you can't get boddhichitta, you can not become
enlightened in this life, impossible, you can not live in a world which, in which
everything in the world was paradise for you. It would be impossible. It is
impossible.

[student, Paul: It's a without which nothing, I mean you can not have
Buddhahood without boddhichitta period.]

But what I'm doing is explaining why, you see what I mean? I mean, even
karmically speaking, if you don't have an attitude that affects all living beings,
you can never live in a place where all living beings to you are, are angels, or
whatever. It would be impossible, logically impossible. Yeah?

[student, John Stilwell: You say that if you have an attitude of...beneficial karma
towards a select group of people that you could live in paradise with those select
group of people [unclear]? ]

No. No, you'd live in a world where, you know, some of the people were nice to
you.

[student, John Stilwell: Where they were isolated?]
Yeah, no, isolating

[student: You're talking about full enlightenment, aren't you? You're not talking
about]

Yeah sure, that's what we mean

[student: Arhats or not.]

No, right, that's nirvana. Right? I've [unclear] Buddhahood. For it to occur in
this life, for...you have one door out of here before you die and that you have to
go to tantra, you know, that's the only way, otherwise you will die. And you'll
go through this again, and you won't be able to find a body like, like a, a
diamond body, you, you...it'll never happen so you have one door to get into
that door...logically, karmically you have to have some kind of virtue that affects
everything around you. Otherwise it, it will never...it can't happen, it could not
happen logically, from what you already know about karma and you will study
it deeper. And you'll, then you'll really see why it can not occur if you don't have
that state of mind, it will never occur. That's why it's silly to go to all these
initiations and...I mean what will really trigger it is that virtue and not any...it's
good to have a blessing from a lama but if you, obviously if you don't have that
particular virtue, it's impossible. It will nev...it can not happen, so it doesn't
matter, you know, you can run around to all these initiations but, if you don't
have that particular virtue, it's, it's logically impossible for it to happen and it
won't happen and you can see many people that it didn't happen to, apparently,
okay?

[student, John Stilwell: So in terms of taking initiations, would you advise don't
bother?]

No, no, they're great blessing, but if you don't go in, with the three principle
paths, and particularly if you don't...flower, if you don't water those flowers with
the three principle paths, it's impossible. It won't have any result, it'll be nice,
you'll have a small blessing on you, maybe in twenty thousand lives you might
meet, you know, whatever, but a, not much, cannot have much effect...it, it's like
throwing a seed into a desert, you know, it's...yeah, it's possible something could
grow, it won't last, it won't be strong, you know...it's, it's logically impossible,
you already know that, it has...logically you have to do something which affects
all beings around you, or, or it won't work, it can not, it can not work, so we're
going to go through the methods of generating, or the methods of getting
boddhichitta, because now you know you need it. And it's in your texts. I, I'll
give you the tibetan page if you want to follow...it's on, the whole thing that
we're going to do today is on page forty-five, in the tibetan. And I'll draw that
number forty-five for you. The five looks like a four, it screwed me up for years,
so, be careful. And there are two methods for getting boddhichitta, two, two
methods for achieving this state of mind. And it's a very special state of mind, it's
the wish for Buddhahood but, the day you get it you'll know...it'll be like
dynamite, you know, it's not easy thing, it's a very difficult thing...to, to get it, so
the first step, the first of the two methods is called the...if you get too warm in
here we'll turn it on high.

[student: Too warm?]

If you, if you get too warm. So please say {dak shen}[repeat], {nyam je}[repeat],
{dak shen}[repeat], {nyam je}[repeat], okay, there are two ways to get
boddhichitta in your heart, two ways to get the wish for enlightenment, this is
the first one. {Dak} means, do you know Connie? {Dak}?

[student, Connie: {Dak ni}?]

Yeah.

[student, Connie: I, myself.]

Yeah, I, me, okay? {Shen} is the opposite.

[student, Connie: Self and others]

Others, all others. {Dak} means "self", {shen} means "others", other people, other
beings. {Nyam} means "equal". And {je} means "exchange". This is a meditation,
they, what they call exchanging self and others. And it was particularly strong,
taught by Shantideva, and...it's, it's sort of putting yourself in someone else's
shoes, it's pretty much that, it's a little more complicated but, it's that you...you
pretend you are the other person, and you try to imagine what he wants, and
not what you want, and you try to, I try to pretend I'm Rugero, and I'm sitting in
the chair and Michael is talking, and I'm hoping he doesn't go too late this time
and, I hope he speaks more slowly, and I hope he says something clear and so I,
if I have {dak shen nyam je}, I pretend I'm you. I try to think what you're
thinking, and I try to do things to, to serve you, to make you happy, not make
me happy. I, I pretend, I put your happiness, it's...actually it's not exchanging self
and others, it's exchanging your happiness and my happiness. I put your
happiness in as my number one job, okay? I'm worried about your happiness,
yeah, so I trade, you give me your happiness I give you my happiness.

[student: So you expect mine too? To [unclear] ]

No, I'm only worrying about, I'm only thinking what you would like, you know?
I'm only thinking what , what would make you happy.

[student, Fran Dayan: Do you take on her suffering?]

No, not in this meditation like that...it's more that, I just...it's not that I change
myself with her, which is what the words, you know, people translate it as
exchanging self and others, it's exchanging my concern for myself with, with a
concern for herself, so that I'm worried about what makes you happy. I'm
thinking about what makes you happy, I trade my thinking about what makes
me happy with thinking about what makes you happy and I'm, I'm worried
about, I'm thinking, I'm trying to think what does Rugero need right now? What
does she want right now, what will make her happy right now? And of course
the worrying mostly about ultimate happiness, how, how can I stop Rugero
from dying? You know, how can I stop Rugero from getting sick? How can I
help her get away from her samsara? Then that...then I, I'm worrying about
that, I'm thinking about...that's exchanging myself with others. Yeah?

[student, Paul: You just started to touch on my question. The emphasis should
be on the ultimate happiness, right? If somebody for instance, got their way by
lying all the time and then they were happy about that because they were
putting themselves ahead, you don't mean to sit there and contemplate, jeeze,
you know, how can I help this person lie even more, something like that.]

Yeah of course not, yeah, of course not. Yeah I want to make you happy in a real
way. Not, not little happy...little happy is maybe I give you some money or I
give you some food or something like that, it's I, I'm trying to think what will
really help you, you know, what will get you out of your own samsara.

[student, Nitia: But Michael ]

Yeah?

[student, Nitia: ...I don't know, because the, the wish to help other, has to be
together with the skillful means like what they say, right? To be skillful in that,
otherwise it turn into disaster, even if it happens to me, you know, you try to
taught dharma to some people and then a month later these...what, what you
said about dharma, with good intention, maybe it turn into something awful that
generates power trips, I don't know.]

I, I...what do you say to that? Think about karma, laws of karma, answer him
according to the laws of karma.

[student: Um, well I think your motivation has a lot to do with it, I mean you
generally try and help someone.]

No, somebody had a disaster, as a result of your teaching them dharma.

[student: Someone had a disaster because they misinterpreted what she said, or
because you were saying that you taught it incorrectly?]

No, let's say you taught it correctly, they still had a bad result.

[student: I see, they still had a ...well the result is, the result isn't connected to his
teaching of the dharma, it has nothing to do with it, has something to do with
something much [unclear].]

Teaching the dharma is a, is a good deed, it must have a pleasant karmic
result...the definition of good deed. And if they have a bad result from it, it
cannot come from teaching the dharma. It's just like lying to make money in
business, it's the same thing. So you're telling your wife the truth and she gets
angry at you, you know? [laughs]

[student, Nitia: When they say to be skilled, it seems that you need some special
skill, even in talking down like even trying to help people.]

Well they say, they say ultimately, you can't teach dharma unless you're a
buddha. I mean ultimately, you don't know. You can't really help other people
until you're a buddha, because a buddha can read the other person's mind, he
can see their future lives, he can see their past lives, he knows exactly what will
be the best thing to say. In fact, he doesn't even think like that, whatever he says
is automatically the best thing to say because of his virtue. So ultimately yeah,
you...the ultimate skillful means is to be a buddha and that's why you have to
have boddhichitta. There's an argument in, in, in the debate ground, whether
you can even help anybody without being ]

[student, Nitia: Sometime seems like, I don't know Jesus was saying, father
forgive them because they don't know what they are doing ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[student, Nitia: So, talking about with people about dharma sometimes it seems
like talking with drunkard and the, the next week maybe they switch around
and they say, what did you tell me about that thing and you gave me as a secret,
or something like this, and it turn into something nasty.]

But there's a thing, there's a thing that you'll study, when you reach debating,
when we do, when we do logic, which should be done in the next course but I'm
not gonna do it because I don't wanna lose everybody. [laughter] Logic is hard,
I mean logic is dry. We have to do it first, before we're allowed to study
scripture we're supposed to do logic. What's a good reason? But actually when
you study that, maybe in the third or fourth course, you're not allowed to
present an argument to a person, if he doesn't already accept every part of it, but
he just didn't figure out the conclusion yet. It's very interesting...I'm not allowed
to debate with you, if you don't already accept what I'm telling you but you just
didn't see the connection, it's very interesting...I'm not allowed to teach you
anything, that, that makes you have to jump or have faith or, or believe in me
because then I can tell you anything, you'll go out and talk to the next guy who
says that killing is a virtue and you'll do it.

[student: But you first have to discover whether or not somebody does accept it
[unclear] many times they don't even know.]

So you have to go down, down, down, down until you reach his, what he
believes, and then you have to build from that. You're not allowed to start a
debate up here, if his beliefs are down there. You have to go down to his beliefs.
Way, way down to his basic, something that he can accept himself, that he
already accepts himself and then you have to build your argument up from
there. And if, if you jump ahead, and you...if he's supposed to draw a conclusion,
if he's supposed to agree with you, before he's reached the, the good reasons for
it, it's a, it's my...I'm giving you bad logic, I'm not teaching you right...it's very
interesting, I, I'm, I'm guilty, according to the rules of logic if I try to teach you

[student: Also that's teaching to capacity, in a way, ]
Yeah that's teaching over capacity.

[student: I mean it's the same concept.]

So

[student: No, no, no, I mean, what, getting down to it]

Yeah yeah yeah right, right, right, and if I don't do that, the fallacy, the
conclusion, is not true, according to buddhism, isn't that interesting? If I don't
take the argument down to your beliefs, the argument is false.                     It's
interesting...you know?          Aah, trying to prove emptiness, logically, to
Chandrakirti, is a, is, is an incorrect argument, for example...it's very interesting,
it's one of the seven fallacies of logic, I can't try to prove something to someone
who already believes it, if I try, I, I'm speaking a, a mistruth, my statement's not
logical, it's very interesting.

[student, Nitia: There was...that's, that's a mundane thing that comes in my
mind, I know, but Frederick Nietzsche, the philosopher, said that, thinking,
people think then thinking is really, is a way of feeling more than ever, you
know? So you're feeling a certain way, henceforth you start thinking a certain
way it's not just [unclear] so it seems then to plug in to the dharma, you have to
have some sort of sensitivity that nobody can beat on you, you know that they
automatic you have to be ready in a certain way to absorb these teachings
otherwise you don't get them, [unclear] people, especially if you have teachers
that, that they don't have any skillful means like [unclear] ]

There's a famous thing about the, the sun...the lotus doesn't open until the sun
comes up, something like that, you know, I mean the Buddha...if the person's not
ready, the Buddha will not come to that world...if no one's ready, that's one of
the reasons given for why the Buddha pretended to die, 'cause there was nobody
in the world that could, that could grasp what he was saying at that point, any
longer...that's, that's one of the classical reasons. Yeah?

[student, John Stilwell: Isn't it said somewhere if, if you really try to teach or
present dharma, and you're not a good teacher that it's really non-virtuous, non-
virtue, because you're doing a disservice to the dharma and you're actually
giving people incorrect views, incorrect information?]
I think only time I can remember anything like that is in the boddhisattva vows,
like what if you teach, for example, emptiness, to a person who's not yet ready,
and especially if you teach secret buddhism to someone who's not ready, that's,
yeah, if you hurt them, that's ]

[student, John Stilwell: Yeah I know that, but I thought it was just on a very
general level ]

I, I can't remember that.

[student, John Stilwell: If you try to teach and you misrepresent buddhism
you're doing a disservice.]

Yeah, if, if you don't know what you're saying, yeah.

[student, Nitia: Tantric [unclear] ]

Well, if it were, we couldn't talk about it. [laughs] Just kidding. Yeah. You're
okay? Okay. Let's go.

[student, Paul: I, I'll be, briefly, on the meditation, on the exchanging self and
others for their ultimate happiness ]

You can start with small ones, and it's appropriate.

[student, Paul: Back to the, the business person who, who's very happy because
they lie all the time and they think they're getting ahead.]

Yeah.

[student, Paul: That meditation might result in you, thinking about them in a
way that will temporarily make them feel hurt rather than happy, which is to try
to get them off the addiction of lying, and they don't see that right away so they
might feel, oh my gosh, my lies are being uncovered, you know, ultimately that
will help, that, that, that sorrow about that may help them, so.]

Yeah, right, this is skillful, yeah, okay, yeah, okay, so we go...this is presented in
Shantideva, it is fantastic in that book, I mean, were you there when Rinpoche
taught it, I don't know...but
[student: Which one?]

It's in, when he taught it in Shantideva.

[student, Paul: Yeah, last summer, a couple of summers ago he taught it.]

Yeah, like years ago he taught it...and he took like, he taught it for like eight
years or something, I mean the whole book and, and you...you get, if you get
good at this you get confused who you are. [laughs] You know, if you meditate
on this well, you start to get, am I Fran or am I Michael, you know, you start to,
because all I'm thinking about is what you want, and what's good for you, and I
begin to forget about myself. Karma, that is funny, the karma of that is that I get
whatever I want, it's funny, you know, really you're trying to help them, but the
harder you try to help someone else, the karma of that is that you, you start to
get pleasant results. Yeah?

[student, Nitia: They [unclear] is it correct or related to the fact that this, the
sense of the [unclear] the sense for, you know, most of the time you might like I
always thought me, is me, but is not me is anybody else, so the, the fact then, the
identity is really a force, principle to start.]

It's, it's a start, you can start like that but the meaning of self, which we'll do next
week, has a different meaning, it's not what you normally think. When
buddhism says no self, it, it's very delicate question and we'll talk about it next
week, but it's not what you think, and, you know, if we all survive 'til next week
you'll find out. The idea...for example, the word for self, the table has that. I
should say the table doesn't have that, you see? It's really the, the self nature of a
thing, it's not the identity of a person, Nitio or Michael or something like that, it's
not that. And we'll talk about it, we'll get to it next week. Okay, so {dak shen
nyam je} we're not gonna talk about and you don't have to know it, okay?

[student: Not going to talk about it?]

No. This book concentrates on the second method, okay? This is the first
method. I think western people find the first method easier and more attractive.
But I found that, go, go work on a method that doesn't seem that it would be
naturally good for you and sometimes you find very incredible results, so we're
gonna work on the second method and the book, in the book he doesn't teach
this, he says, he says you can get Buddhahood either way, and he says {nyepar
kay}, {nyepar kay} means "you will", you will get boddhichitta if you use either
method, either method you want to use it's okay, you will definitely get
boddhichitta, okay? We're not going to use that one so much, that's, again that's
for Shantideva and, in this course, in this five year course we will, we will cover
his book, it'll probably take two or three courses. We will cover the [b:
Boddhicharyavatara], the [b: Boddhisattva's Way of Life], okay? We, we'll do the
book, we'll do the whole book and we'll do it nice...yeah, it's reaaally nice and
it...if you need one book in your life, that's...if you need one book for your office,
right? [laughs] That's the one.

[student: Is, is this, is this method the same as loving gaze?]

No.

[student: That's a different means. ]

And he doesn't get into it 'cause it's so secret, okay. Okay, here's the second
method.

[student, John Stilwell: Michael, what you said before about when you go to
help other people and benefit other people before yourself so you naturally
have, whatever you need come back to you, even, is that even at the mundane
level if you're, you know, working to help homeless people, say, you know.]

Yeah.

[student, John Stilwell: Even at that mundane level?]

Yeah, it's especially, I mean it takes time, right? At the quickest it can happen
later in your life, you know, unless it's some incredibly powerful virtue, but
normally, in fact you'll see that in, in...you know when you see that explanation,
is in the tantric writings of {Chang Gyan Rupay Dorje} who was the lama to the
emperor of China, and brought buddhism, helped bring buddhism to Mongolia,
but who is...he is, by the way, {Pabonkh}. I mean he was a former life, so, it's
very interesting, you know, his commentary on the secret teaching is he gives
t...what I've seen is the most beautiful presentation of how that happens...so
please say {gyun day}[repeat], {meng na}[repeat], {dun}[repeat], {gyun day}
[repeat], {meng na}[repeat], {dun}[repeat]. {Gyu}, {gyu} which is without the {na}
sound, the {na} sound comes from this but I don't...I'm not going to go into it
much...{gyu} means "cause", "cause." {Je} means "result". {Meng na} means
"advice, personal advice." So this meditation is called an advice.
[student: What's {dun}?]

{Dun} means "seven", number seven. But...so this way to get boddhichitta...and
you can do it, if you try it you'll get it, if you don't try it you won't get it.
[laughter] Right? {Le nyepa}, {le ma chepa dang ma chepa}, right? What's that
mean, remember? {Ma chepa dang ma chepa} remember? {Ma che}? {Ma che},
if you don't do, you don't get the result, that's a principle of karma, you know
that you learned it. Okay? If you don't, I promise if you don't do it you won't get
it.

[student, Paul: What if you did it a long time ago you can sit now and just wait
for the results.]

Yeah, yeah, okay, everybody have that?

[student, John Stilwell:    {Meng na}, is that one person, one advice or not?
[unclear] ]

Oh no, nothing...not like that. {Nak} does mean speech but {meng nak} is an
idiom, it does not have a real break, you can't really break it down.

[student: So, can you give us that in like a sentence, Michael?]

Yeah, it is this...it is the, the, the advice of seven steps for training yourself to
boddhichitta, and those seven steps are, are cause and effect, each one causes the
next one. That's the big meaning of cause and effect but we're gonna see, it's a
little bit more complicated than that...the, the, I think I wrote in the, I don't know
how we translated this, the seven step construction, the cause and effect...seven
part cause and effect instruction. Okay? You'll be happy to know...oh, you guys
don't care so much but, the tibetan track students are very thrilled that this
whole thing has only two or three words in each step. [laughter] They almost
died on these six, I lost a couple people on the...

[silence ]

[student, John Stilwell: You mean they quit or, or they failed?]

No they [unclear], they came in last. And they sat down and they, they started
writing and then they just looked at [unclear], one, one or two of 'em just fell
asleep, 'cause they spent like six, seven hours trying to memorize. I guess it was
a little too long, it's the first time I ever taught this course so I, I don't, I have to
learn how to judge, how much people can digest. Okay, please say {mar shay}
[repeat], {mar shay}[repeat]. {Ma}, the {ma} without the {ra}, means "mama".
Same in every language. Mother. {Ra}, the {ra} there means "as", as your
mother. And {shay} means "recognize". {Shay} means "recognize". I'm going to
spend a little time on this because if you don't...if I don't, the rest won't come.
Because this is cause and effect, cause and effect cause and effect cause and
effect...you have, this one has to be there before the rest can trigger, and it's very
difficult. It's called recognizing that everyone has been your mother. Okay? It's
very, very difficult, especially for people in western countries who...we, we grew
up thinking, that you...you know, one life to live, Miller Lite, you know what I
mean? [laughter] You know? I mean we see it in those a...yeah, I think that's
how they say, or is it Bud, I don't know. Bud lite, one life to live.

[students: [unclear] ]

There's...to accept this, you have to accept that you had a past life. Not only that,
you have to accept that your past lives are countless, and there's no beginning to
your past lives. To accept this first one, without the first one you can't have the
other six, right? You must accept that you had a past life and you must accept
that that one had a past life, and that that one had a past life, and that that one
had a past life and that there's no beginning. And I, I've read a lot of scriptures
about it and, the main one is the [b: Pramana Vartica] of Dharmakirti, second
chapter...we debate it every winter, for months...and in there he says, and in the
[b: Lam Rim Chenmo], he says there's only one proof of past lives. I mean, you
can say I remember your past life, he says, you can't really accept that as proof, I
mean some extraordinary people may remember, we can't accept it because we
can't see that...as I said it's not, it's not a good argument for us because we don't
believe in the parts of his statement. But there's no way for us to confirm what
he's saying. There's only one way for a non-buddha or a non...a person without
a good understanding of emptiness, a direct understanding of emptiness, to see
his past lives and that's with logic. You cannot see your past lives directly at this
point. And then if you say you believe in past lives, and you don't know this
argument, according to buddhism you're, you're lying or you don't know what
you're saying. Not lying but you, you really don't understand what you're
saying, and it's a big thing in buddhism when, when you study logic, you'll see,
as...if you're a buddhist scholar, if you're a buddhist thinker, you're not allowed
to say something is true if you haven't seen it...with logic. At least with logic, at
least with reasoning, if you haven't seen it you're not, you're not allowed to say I
believe in a buddha, you've never seen a buddha. You don't know he exists.
You've never seen your past lives, you don't know if they exist. You have some
feeling that you think is true, but it's no more than a feeling or, or a little bit of
logic there. You might as well say you believe in god, you know, which
according to buddhism doesn't exist, so, so, you have to be careful, so what's the
proof of past lives? It's very, very simple and it's, and according to all the books
it's very hard to believe, it's very hard to see. You have to think about it a lot.
You won't believe it the first time I say it, okay? And, and buddhism says you
won't, you shouldn't...and you won't. Aah, so don't feel bad if you don't, alright?
But, but think about it, okay? It's true, and the reason you don't believe it is
because you grew up in this country mostly, it's not because it's not logical or not
true, but it sounds illogical, so!

[student, Paul: So everyone in a asian country believes it? And understands it?]

Many of them, many people, most people say, in tibetan culture, what, what my
religion teachers in university used to call a, a gut pre...predisposition. They
be...as, as you believe in god, you know, they may not understand it, they may
not know anything about it, but they believe in it. And you believe in god.
Probably the object which they believe in, doesn't exist anymore than god, I
mean their concept of what a past life was, may not exist, but they do
believe...because their parents used to talk about it a long time. And you believe
it, you have certain beliefs which are crazy...that you just grew up with, you
know, god, believing in god, and I have another few examples. I, I can think of
like alcohol, that alcohol is in any way desirable or chic or fun or happy or can
have any good result for you...pornography, like that, I can think of that, you
know our culture accepts it, our culture almost worships it, on some level or
another...it's just harmful, it's just wrong, it shouldn't be, but, but we grew
up...we, we are, we grew up in a culture where we thought, well, it's okay, it's
kind of nice in the movie, you know, when he has a [unclear] in a scene, it's, it's
wrong, it's harmful. We have certain predispositions, we have certain beliefs, I
mean a hundred years ago there was a debate, Thomas Jefferson...I mean two
hundred...I saw the letters, Thomas Jefferson writing letters to Washington or
something, are black people humans or not? You know, they were debating, are
they animals or humans, you know? It was a serious argument at the time, you
know, and, and now we just say, it's crazy, we don't believe it. You have certain
beliefs that are just...don't make any sense at all, and you have them because you
grew up here. And a hundred years from now they'll say, boy, those crazy
people, they believed in...it's so silly...you know. Yeah?
[student, Nitia: [unclear] question maybe when you are the [unclear] of a
student, right? You said something very beautiful to me you were saying the
student has to be intelligent because he moves beyond all the beliefs of his group
or his society or his country for which [unclear] ]

He could [unclear] what's good and what's evil.

[student, Nitia: Yeah yeah so...it's so is not a matter of [unclear] reason for, a
reason [unclear] your group they believe in reincarnation so you automatically
believe it is more [unclear] like.]

So here we go, here is the argument okay? Boy, I built it up, man, it won't be so
hot, okay. [laughter] And it comes in the book, he says, you...right now you are,
I mean, you're watching me, you're aware of this class...you're thinking about
this class and you're thinking about this room, and you're aware of this room,
you have that consciousness, you have an awareness of this room. According to
buddhism, that awareness has to come from a cause which was similar, similar
stuff. Okay? That's very important, similar stuff we call {nyer ling gyi gu}. It
must come, everything must come from a main cause, I'm talking main cause,
that was made of the same kind of stuff. And, and physicists, western science
people, they agree that matter has to come from matter, physical things have to
come from physical things, they agree with that, they say that physical things are
indestructible. They say that, that matter cannot be destroyed, it changes into
different shapes...that's John Stilwell today, tomorrow it's dust, then it's worm
food, then it's bird food, then it's human food, and then it's a human, right?
Same dust, the same dirt. Okay? Matter is indestructible, matter cannot be
destroyed, western science says that. So, so stuff of John Stilwell's body has to
come from stuff which is physical, and according to buddhism that means it has
color and shape, for example. What about the stuff of your consciousness,
where does...where did, where did your, where did the...you now are aware of
this room, so I ask Fran: You are aware of this room. You have an awareness.
Where did that awareness come from?

[student, Fran Dayan: It came from my previous awareness.]

Yeah, I mean the awareness of coming in the door. Which came from awareness
of being on this beautiful street [unclear]. Which came from awareness of a
subway, right? It has to, it has to.

[student, Vilma Staiano: Well then how come it couldn't just start from when
you were born?]

This is a...again, we'll, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. The main, when I'm,
when I'm presenting this argument, right, I have to bring it down to your...the
closest belief you have that I can get to. It's very important to believe this
argument, you have to separate mind and body. You have to realize that mind
and body are completely separate. They are different stuff, forget it, you
can't...you know you don't think about it, that's your problem. Your mind is
invisible, you can't touch it, you can't smell it, you can't cut it, you can't burn it,
nothing, okay? It...you could put a seed in it and you could get the result later
which is why you're studying. And you believe that or you wouldn't be here.
You, you believe that this invisible thing, that no one can see...I can't see your
mind. You can't see your mind. It's even hard to say where it is, your mind
extends to your arm because if, if you pinch yourself you have feeling which is a
mental, a mental entity, it's mental stuff, feeling is mental. So my mind must
stretch out to around...there's a debate in the [b: Abhidharma], does it go down
to the end of my fingernails or not? Okay, I mean it...somehow it's right around
here it stops, okay? Right? But I can also think of my office, that I was in a few
hours ago...so my mind can reach there also, my mind is there too.

[student: Your personal space as it were.]

Yeah. So it's very weird, I mean it, you, the reason you, you don't...you just
don't think about your mind, you take it for granted. You can't see it...it's aware,
somehow it's lit up. Somehow it has some kind of energy to, to know. And how
does that happen, how can it happen? You know, is it part of your body? You
know, is it part of the skin or the bones or the eyes? Or is it something that
r...that stays there for a while. You know, and if you think about it you'll start to
see that, you know, well you just don't think much about your mind, that's the
point, you know, people don't go into the subway and worry about where's
their mind, right? [laughs] You worry about where's your wallet, you know.
[laughs]

[student: Where you mind is.]

Okay?

[student: [unclear] ]

So...hang on a second...so it's very, it's very subtle. First you have to realize that
your mind and your body are separate, they are different. Different stuff.
Come on, body you can cut, body you can burn, body you can divide, body you
can touch. You know? Stuff, matter you can...but not mind, mind is totally
beyond your reach. You can set off an atom bomb it won't touch, touch the
mind. You know? The mind is beyond matter, the mind is beyond physical
stuff...it's free of physical stuff. But...wait...so...wait, wait, I'll, we'll do debating
later. Let me present the argument, then you defeat it. And I don't say I, I don't
believe I can convince you and the [b: Lam Rim Chenmo] and the logic texts say,
this point is difficult and you can not perceive it on the first hearing, you have to
think about it. At least give it some thought, right? Whatever your thought is,
okay? So, the argument goes like that. The stuff of your body, and the stuff of
the walls and the stuff of the bricks and the stuff of the dirt, and the earth is one
thing. The stuff of the mind is a different thing. It's different stuff.

[student, John Stilwell: Can I ask you a question Michael?]

Wait. And it has to come, it has to come from mental stuff, and what she said. If,
if you are thinking now, if you can see me now, if you can think about me
now...that thinking came from the thinking you had when you came in the door.
And if you meditate like this...it's a very beautiful meditation, if you get good at
meditating, if you meditate like an hour a day, and you reaaally get good at
shamata, you can follow your thoughts backwards...very far, very far. You
know?       It's, it's really interesting, because all your thoughts come from
associations. Why does your mind jump to something next? What causes your
mind to go to something next? What determines what your mind goes to next?
It's very interesting and you can trace that back, if you get good at meditating
and very quiet, you could follow your thoughts back a long way, like back to
your early childhood. Even...very far.

[student: Even to your birth [unclear]?]

Maybe. So, you can, what I'm trying to say is that, whatever awareness you
have now had to come...from awareness, it can't come from stuff, the stuff has to
be mental. The stuff that mental stuff comes from has to be mental.

[student: There's nothing alien about these concepts in the west, I mean this is
where soul and spirit come in.]

No, not really, this is why you come to school. This is why you trust, you
believe that your mind is a stream. That's why you send your children to school.
If you didn't believe it, if you didn't believe that at something placed in that
stream in the first grade will flow down to third grade, you know, you wouldn't
send them to school. You don't say, I'm sending Johnny to, to school to get a
seed put in his mind so it could stream down to third grade and come out...but
that's exactly what you believe or you would not send Johnny to school, you
believe that the mind streams out. You believe that, and you believe that you
could put a seed in it now and have a result in three years or twenty years when
he graduates from college. You believe that. We believe that or we wouldn't
have education, we wouldn't send someone to school. We don't say it that way,
we don't say, oh I'd like for Johnny to have some good seeds put in his mind
stream so that, you know, twenty years downstream he gets some good results,
but you believe it, that's why you, you put him in school. 'Cause you believe
they could put some knowledge in his mind that will come out later. [cut] The
odds, what's that, that's just one in a trillion odds, I'm talking countless. I'm
talking countless trillions, of course everything has been here. Countless times,
it's beginningless, think about it, you know when I say beginningless we tend to
think a million years, you know, maybe around jurassic park or something.
[laughter] I'm saying countless.

[students: [unclear verbal melee] ]

The combinations are infinite. The combinations are infinite.

[student: [unclear] ]

No, no. Okay, suppose there's a planet, we don't call it America but there's a
Miss America, or there's a Miss, you know, Zonker contest. [laughter] Okay?
But, but there's been trillions of those so one of them was called America, and
there's been trillions of those, and it's everything, really...everything has
happened. I have been everything. I've been everything countless times...and it
didn't help me, I'm still here, I'm still in samsara...which is what, definition please?

[student: It's a bummer.]

No. All I have to prove to you, all I have to prove to you is that this moment of
awareness had to come from a moment of awareness from which it turned into,
and then the rest is easy, the rest is cake, a piece of cake.

[student, John Stilwell: Mind only comes from mind.]
[student, Paul: So then conversely, if you've never had an awareness of
something, you can't perceive it. For instance, if we evoke the buddhas to come
into this room, surely they will come, they will be here, we won't have an
awareness of that because we've never had an awareness of seeing the Buddha
face to face before?]

Aaah, that's a big argument, I don't want to...I mean, I'm, I'm not capable of

[student, Paul: I mean then but that's also then limiting as well, that you, you are
limited to awarenesses like the kinds that you've had before. So, so how do you
get new awarenesses if you haven't had them before?]

The fly lands on a piece of cowpie. [laughter] And a big flood comes. Cowpie
goes around the stupa. [louder laughter] True story, this is a true story. This is a
true story. And the fly gets enough virtue...because he circumambulated the
stupa by sheer accident.

[student: Random circumstance.]

No, that's a true story. [laughs]

[students: [unclear] ]

I know, I know, I know. Thank you. Alright.

[student, Vilma Staiano: So, so then how does that ]

Now I'm open for debate, anyone can argue.

[student, Vilma Staiano: How, how does that explain the actual existence of
anything then, so, or...you know.]

We'll get there, we'll get there...but I mean that's a big story, next week. See, I
didn't say four years from now...that's my usual answer. [laughs] I'm just
worried someone will ask me to be around four years, you know? [laughs]

[student, Nitia: Mind that you...the mind that you were talking before, is it part
of the five skandas, the five heaps? ]

Yeah, number five, consciousness.
[student, Nitia: So I've difficulties there because we say we are the aggregates of
five heaps, right? Now when these things...these aggregates they go every one
of them so on we are more I mean that's [unclear] ]

But they don't go on more, we lose the physical parts but the mind continues,
and the mind always has five functions with it. Five functions cannot be wiped
out of the mind. One of them is feeling, if you, if you are thinking you have
feeling. And if you thinking you are having discrimination.

[student, Nitia: And the senses? What of the senses [unclear]?]

Even without a physical body, you never, ever stop feeling. 'Cause you have
mental [unclear] happiness, [unclear]

[student, Nitia: But one of the skanda is the senses?]

No, it's not the senses, it's feeling, the mental function of feeling. The skandas are
what I call one of those mangled ideas, okay? I mean when you learn the
skandas well, which is the subject of the first chapter of the [b: Abhidharma], you
know, then you'll realize that half of what you ever heard about them was
ridiculous.

[student: What are the other three? Feeling, discrimination...all of them.]

We'll get to them. [laughter]

[students: [unclear] ]

Second chapter [b: Abhidharma]. And by the way, the other schools have a
different presentation, they say there's like ten. But I can say, for example,
{sempa}, which is movement in the mind, anytime the mind moves...the mind is
always moving, period. That in fact is the definition of karma...yeah?

[student, John Stilwell: I wanted to go back to when you were talking about the
physical body coming...physical stuff and the mind coming from mental stuff.]

And the mind coming from mental stuff. I call it stuff but, you know, it's not
stuff...ya can't, you can't throw it out or anything like that.
[student, John Stilwell: Being distinct and separate from each other. My concept
of physical stuff is that it is comprised of continually smaller and smaller particles
down to a, a most subtle level, well, to a most subtle level, a most subtle level of
energy or whatever you want to call it...and that subtle level of energy is
permeating everything mind, physical body, whatever and it seems at coarser
level that we identify it as physical stuff, and at the subtle level we identify it as
mental stuff.]

{Da vie vajraka} school, which is the Abhidharma school, tries to say something
like that, and we'll get to that. It, it, they do have that argument. Their definition
of ultimate reality is something which can no longer be reduced by the mind.
Which is kind of what you're saying, okay? You get down to some`atom, atom,
atom, atom that has some universal energy down there, and that's actually their
belief of what ultimate reality is, we'll get into it next week.

[student, John Stilwell: Not what you're saying, not what you are saying. ]

[unclear] Yeah, actually the higher schools don't, don't accept that. But it, it's such
a natural thought, that it is a buddhist position.

[student, John Stilwell: What is?]

That, that idea is a, is very similar to the Abhidharma position, so we don't say
it's not useful, it's very useful and you build on it.

[student, John Stilwell: But they are not that is distinct separate [unclear]?]

Yeah. Yeah, I mean you can tell. I mean, physical stuff, for one thing is what we
call {toe brick}. It's, it's blocks, of objects. Mind doesn't. We can all, you know, I
say put...everyone think about this the top of this pen and all the minds are
there, sitting there, in the...and I can sit...put up a needle, and all our minds can
be on the tip of that needle, fits quite nicely, not like the subway, you know? The
subway is physical...you know? You get a hundred people and you're all like
that, and this guy is stepping on your feet, mind is not like that. Mind...think
about how different mind is, I mean you don't think about it, that's, that's the
whole thing...your mind can go to your childhood, your mind can immediately
go to Alaska, you know, your mind...when we started meditating with this
burmese teacher which the...the Dalai Lama sent him to teach us, and he, the first
thing he says to us is we're going to be here ten days, you're going to meditate
for all day, you cannot move, do not think about monkeys. [laughter] So
everyone, you know...the first thing you think about is monkeys, you can't get
monkeys out of your mind. [laughter] Why he'd say that? It is so funny. So
your mind can go anywhere.

[student, John Stilwell: So, so in terms of what you're saying though, this is
physical stuff, you can touch it, you can [unclear] ]

What we call {to bray}.

[student, John Stilwell: It's made of molecules, it's made of atoms, so are, so are
radiowaves or whatever, but they don't block, you can't touch 'em, you can't ]

They do block...interference. [unclear] Okay, one more argument then we got to
go on.

[student, Paul: Well, I, I, I think it's a lot easier to contemplate if you, if you think
about the other kinds of beings, the non-samsaric beings, the beings in nirvana
and the buddhas, okay? They don't suddenly become eternal...they've always
been eternal, we've always been eternal it's just that we have the ignorance of
thinking that we're not, and thinking that we're going through these different,
characters that we play over and over and over again, and in that sense it's the
same thing it's just that they've shed that illusion and we just keep going around
and around not realizing what we really are or who we really are in a sense.]

So don't, you know, go too far, try to, try to, as an exercise if you, if you want
to...so you have like a month and a half off after we finish, which is shortly, so
think about it...I mean just, just you can make a meditation of it, you know, if
you meditate quietly you can follow your mind back, and then it becomes more
believable to you because you actually can trace...you get very familiar with how
your mind follows certain directions from your past thoughts, the past thoughts
are put in your mind mental habits and then you tend, they tend to push your
mind...you know, what makes you think of what you're going to think of next?
Did you ever wonder? [laughs] You know, it's your past..it's your past
awareness.

[student, Fran Dayan: Does, does the mind remember everything that's ever
happened to you?]

Yeah, there is a stage in buddhism, in meditation where you can remember
everything you ever experienced, and you can go all the way back. [cut] side
that your mind has been beginningless. After many, many hours of thinking
about it, you just fix your mind on it and you keep it in your mind and you burn
it into your awareness, that's {gom}. The word, tibetan word for meditation
means that.

[student:     But you're making concentration sound more like analytical
meditation. ]

It is, it is.

[student: So analytical meditation and concentration are the same thing.]

Contemplation. Yeah, yeah...and then {gom}...{gom} is...in the three steps, right?
Meditation in the, in the three step process of learning, buddhist learning, is just
burning it into your consciousness by focusing your mind on it over and over
again, bringing it up to your mind over and over again, until it's just caught in
your...it gets internalized. Okay. We'll do two more real fast, then we'll have

[student, Nitia: Michael, is it proper to think in this way [unclear] I don't know,
that just the fact that nobody suppress your life, right? Means then that they are
supporting you somehow.]

Who, who's that?

[student, Nitia: I mean in, in, in the same line if thinking that everybody is, has
benefits your life as for they [unclear] whatever they can also think, I don't know
if [unclear] I heard some place that since nobody, nobody suppress your life,
nobody cause your [unclear] henceforth they are supporting you so]

This is the [b: Abhidharma], this is in the [b: Abhidharma].

[student, Nitia: The reason, the reason for love everybody because they support
your life.]

That's in the [b: Abhidharma] that [cut]

[end side one of tape]

That's a real teaching, but we'll get into that, it's a little bit different from that but
that is in there, and what I say is...what I do say is that if you get good at this, if
you walk...I mean, you walk into a store, you see a guy working and your
reaction to him is, to think, he's working, isn't he kind, you know. Your reaction
to him is very strange...you see a kid, you know, cleaning the floor and you
think he's, he's ultimately he's working for me, isn't he kind, you know you don't
see him as working for money, and you don't see him for any other reason. If
you get good at this meditation, your, your world changes a little bit in a nice
way and you go into a store, someone's working there and you think, boy he's
so kind to be working for me, you know, you go into a bank and the guy...you
go to the desk and he's writing up a new account for you and you...and your
reaction is isn't he kind to be spending his precious life serving you right now.
You don't think, oh I'm paying the money the bank the money he has to do it,
you know...your, your perception begins to change in a very sweet way, and a,
it's, it's true.

[student: Even if he's yelling at you?]

Yeah. I mean in a way he's giving his life for you. He's there in the bank...it's,
it's, I'm saying this is a way of looking at it, and it's not incorrect. It's just that we
don't tend to think that way...he's, he's giving up his precious lifetime, the time of
his life, and you're one of the people he's serving and you, you begin to think
that way and it's a very weird, it's a very nice sweet thing you know. It'll
happen, and you'll see it.

[student, Paul: Michael, Michael is that like, actually you may have all kinds of
thoughts as to why the person is in the bank they aren't true it's the karma that's
true so, any thought that you have about why they're in the bank is a sort of a
fantasy anyway so might as well make it a positive one or a healthy one right?]

Well I guess so but, but the fact is that it'll, it will happen to you, it will happen to
you. I'm not saying go into a bank tomorrow and try to think that way, I'm not
saying that. If you get good at this, and it will come, it'll naturally come, you'll go
into a bank and you'll think...or some guy's tailgating you, you'll think, gee he
wants to go somewhere, let me get out of his way, you know, please, y'know.
It's a weird reaction, you know normally you'd get mad, this guy's trying to
bump me, I'll get...I'll, I'll slow down, you know and if you get into this kind of
thinking, you're like, oh please, you know, you want to go, please go, you know,
it's so weird and it will happen. And it's very sweet, it's very happy, you get very
happy. Okay {tin tin}...oh, I'm sorry. [laughter] I'm going to trick you guys into
studying tibetan, you know. I mean, months from now this will be a tibetan
course, you don't want it to be but.
[student: At least we'll, we'll be awake, you know, when it happens.]

[silence]

{Jin jin, jin chin}

[student, John Stilwell: Michael, can I just pick up on what you were, you were
saying? You were saying you shouldn't pretend at work doing this [unclear] ]

Oh no, but it's not bad to try.

[student, John Stilwell: Michael my question was is my natural tendency is just to
try just to train myself to think that way without pretending.]

That's alright, that's alright.

[student, John Stilwell:      Is there some other approach we should be taking
[unclear]?]

No, no, that's fine, that's a good approach, boddhichitta...they...there is a pre-
boddhichitta boddhichitta that they call...I don't know if I mentioned it, it's called
sugarcane boddhichitta.

[students: Yes.]

It's empty inside, it's sweet on the outside. So it's just, it's called the {chu ma}...
{chu ma}, {chu ma} in tibetan is the word they use for that stupid little...white
powder milk substitute, in that little coffee things, coffeedream, you know?
What do they call it?

[students: Coffeemate.]

Yeah, Coffeemate, in that...the word is {chu ma}, the word refers to that, it
means artificial, fake, chemical, you know, all-made, not real milk...and there is
that kind of boddhichitta, and it's, you have to get that one first, actually. You,
you pretend that you're a boddhisattva, you know. [laughter] You know and,
and then you get so good at it, you know you get good at pretending it, and
then it really happens, it comes true.
[student, Paul: Then you can't be a boddhisattva with {truppa} boddhichitta.]

Oh no. Okay so {dzun jun}. {Dzun} means "kindness" {jun} means "remember",
remember her kindness. This is remembering your mother's kindness and
it...I've had, I've seen classes, I've seen many classes, I've seen many people say, I
don't like my mother, she wasn't kind to me at all. You know...yeah, yeah, no
people have that problem. It doesn't refer to whether you like your mother or
not, it means whether you like your mother or not, she carried you for nine
months and it hurt, and it was uncomfortable and when you came out it ripped
her apart, it hurt a lot, okay? She gave you that, for every moment of nine
months she carried you, and her whole thought in, during that time is about
you, you know, she's thinking what should I eat, what should I do, what
shouldn't I do, you know, is she comfortable or not comfortable, I mean mostly
she's thinking for you and then when you come out it hurts like hell. And then
after that she's, she's a prisoner, you know whether she was a good mother or a
bad mother, she was stuck with you, you know. Every, every moment she can't,
she can't go anywhere, I mean if you have friends who have babies, you know
you used to call them up and say let's go see a movie, you know, now they say
forget it, forget it, I gotta watch the kid, you know, and sometimes you can't
even finish the conversations, 'Mommy I need', 'I gotta go, I gotta go, bye.'
Clank. You know. It's true, it's true, so whether your mother was good mother
or bad mother, forget it, normally, a mother is stuck with you for what, five
years, ten years sometimes fifty years you know? And, and she has no peace,
you, you, you...she gives up her life for you, every moment for the first few
years forget it, every...she can't let you alone and go out for half an hour. They,
they arrested somebody yesterday or the day before for leaving a two year old,
you know and they look like normal, you know, yuppies and they got arrested
'cause they left the kid and went out for a drink, and they arrested them you
know. You know, that's

[student: [unclear] ]

No, so, so however you feel about your present mother, I mean normally even
animal mothers...it's tremendously painful to have and, and the...what they gave
you was not...there's no one else in this world who will serve you like that,
nobody. You know, there never will be anybody, you might get married or
whatever or you might have a close friend, they're not gonna do that for
you...they're not gonna give up every moment of their life and serve you, for
years, you know, forget it. There's, there's only one, who does that and that's
{dzin jen}. Okay. I'm putting these two together 'cause they're...they come
together, {jin sok}, okay? {Jin sok}. I remember the night my mother died and
I...and I had the distinct feeling in my mind that, that the only person in this
world who cares more about me than me, just died, you know? I, I had that
distinct feeling. I, I, I had just lost the person who loves me more than I love
them, you know? You learn more about my future than I ever know, and the
only person, you know, and I remember that, that feeling. Okay, {jin sok} {jin
sok}. Repay, repay kindness. {Jin} means "kindness", {sok} means "pay it back".
Number three. It means this, she helped you like that...and she...there's this
thing in buddhism called a fire pit, it's like a big barbecue pit. It's a huge hole,
and underneath it has holes. Just red embers, coals, and you're standing there
and your mother and you're looking down and she falls down. She falls in.
Then, then would you, would you move or not? You know what I mean? I
mean would you, would you, would you try to get her out or not she's, I mean
the minute she lands on the coals she's no where to go...hot coals, burning coals,
if she steps she can't, she can't get out, and you lose [unclear]

[student: [unclear] ]

No, I mean would you, would you do something? You know, I mean if there
were ten people there, who will jump first, who will try to help her first? If it's
not you you're crazy. You know if you say, oh, oh, you know, could somebody
come and help my mother, you know, I mean the responsibility is yours. You
know...she, she served you, you have this relationship with her, you have to
help her. You're the one who has to, has to try to jump down and try to help
her, you know. It's not like you gonna wait, you know and say oh call the police,
you know, I need someone to help. If you know, if you've been thinking about
how kind she was, you will jump, you know, you will do something, and you
won't wait for somebody else, you'll do it yourself. That's {jin sok}.

[student, Nitia: So in our, in our western country where, the talk of the say, you
know the psychology they were saying a lot of weird things about their mother
and their father and we absorb, you know, these things. ]

Yeah I know, I know, it's unfortunate. It, it doesn't weigh one pound against the
tons of times she gave you, you know what I mean? The...all these little
psychotraumas you have or whatever, forget it, I mean think about someone
serving you day and night, moment by moment for years and years, you know.
That's the fact of it, and it's obvious. So anyway, she's down there...she's
burning...is...are, are, are your other mothers in that situation now or not?
Are...like is the guy you meet on the street, let's say my boss...he's quite
comfortable. I mean he bought a crane to put his jacuzzi up to the penthouse
that he bought. You know I remember the, the debates we had in the office, you
know, like, how we gonna, which crane should we rent, you know? It's got to
get the jacuzzi up to the, up to the penthouse you know, it's a big problem and a
[laughter] we had that argument, we had that talk, you know.              So he's
comfortable. He's been my mother, he is my mother, okay? Is he in fire? He's
worse, I mean he's much worse, much worse than fire.

[student: [unclear] ]

No, he's in samsara, he is samsara. He is his own samsara...you know? He, he
must die, he must reach a point where he can no longer make any contact with
anything he knew before. It's, it's interesting idea...he'll go across a certain line,
and everything he knew before, his wife, his kids, the building we bought, his
business, his money, his car, his jacuzzi...when he crosses that line which he
must, when he just crosses that line, it's all black. He can't see anything, it's just
black. He loses his face, he loses his body, he loses his name, you know, he's in
some kind of [unclear]

[student, Paul: [unclear] loses his concept of himself as what he was?]

Yeah, it's totally [unclear]

[student, Paul: [unclear] ]

He just crosses that line, like that and he's gone. And he, the sad thing is he can't
turn around and see any of it, you know, he can't even remember very clearly
'cause the death wipes out your, your, it wipes out the, the surface
consciousnesses so, so he can't even, he's in some blackness, he's very scared, at
that point your, your energy of your body is mixed, is short-circuiting [unclear],
ssh-ssh-ssh-ssh, and you're hallucinating. Everyone normally hallucinates at that
point. So he's confused, he's frightened, everything's black, he can't remember
anything, he doesn't remember who he is, and he can't turn around and...he can't
even remember or see what he was, and he's just gone. And a...he's in that fire,
he, he is in that fire now. And if he was my mother then I should try to help
him. You know if you try...at the [unclear] of my life I should try to help him,
you know, and that's {jin sok}. Yeah?

[student, Paul: Michael, on...I think this is a good time to mention, real help
doesn't mean throwing yourself in there and burning too, right? It means
intelligently figuring a way of getting them out number one, and number two
can't we, can't we translate this third meditation as developing the wish to repay
the kindness of all the mothers that you've had?]

Sure, why not?

[student, Paul: Is that the way to translate this?]

Yeah, sure.

[student, Paul: Okay.]

Okay? So those are...now I'll ask you a question, are those three cause and
effect? Does number one cause number two? Yeah! If you don't think he's your
mother you're not going to think about what he did for you. So number one
causes number two. To think about what he did for you, my boss, what he did
for me, I have to think about, I have to believe he was my mother. And to...and
to want to pay back what he did for me, what do I have to think?

[student: [unclear] ]

No, I have to think what he did for me, okay? If I don't think he did anything for
me I won't think, oh look a...he took care of me every moment for years, you
know, I should take of, I should do something for him, I have a responsibility to
help him, he was my mother. I...it's my job, to help him. So those are cause and
effect, the first three are cause and effect. We'll see next, after tea, how those
three cause number four.

[student, Paul: Also in the literature quite often, sentient beings are referred to
as all the mother beings for this reason, yeah, mother beings.]

Have some, have some cookies. Good [cut] {Jampa} means "love", {jampa}
means "love". Sanskrit is {maitra}, that's word Maitreya comes from. In fact
Maitreya is called Jampa. His name means love. Maitreya is the next buddha,
didn't come yet. Shakyamuni was the last one, Maitreya is number four.
{Jampa}.

[student, Fran Dayan: I had read a, an outside question, the [unclear] buddha?
How is it we don't know anything about him and what he taught?]
We have it, it's in the commentary, we have his books, we have some of his
books...you know. And actually, there's a million before that, I mean, just in this
era...okay? [unclear] {you om}, {you om} means "pretty" or "lovely".

[silence]

There's two kinds of {jampa}, {jampa} means, the definition of {jampa}, the
definition of {jampa}, the definition of love in tibetan is the emotion where you,
you're obsessed that this person should get what makes him happy.

[student, Paul: The obsession to make another happy.]

The obsession to give a person, what will make him happy.

[student, Paul: So therefore th...in this sense obsession is...doesn't have a
negative connotation.]

No. It's a very positive, like an obsession that you, you, you must give him what
he wants, you must give him what makes him happy. You want to give him all
the good things. This is what the definition of love, and you will study that in ah,
[b: Prajna Paramita].

[student: This gets back to what Tom was talking about before, which is
something that troubles me is that very often what people want is not what they
need.]

Oh yeah, yeah, no that's true, that's true, I mean people might want a gun or
shoot [unclear]

[student: Well I mean you could get less extreme than that, I mean.]

Yeah. Well, in, in buddhist scriptures, it is stated that, I mean...all the lower types
of charity, giving, are, are actually harmful. I mean if I give you a cookie for the
break, I mean, it, it doesn't help you, it's no benefit for you, it's actually...

[student: Loaded with cholesterol.]

It's more, it's not just that, it's just more samsara. You know, it's not really
helping you. But, but at the beginning you give people that because it attracts
them and then you draw them in.
[student: No, but I mean what if, if somebody's standing on the street and they,
they're addicts or they just don't want to work or whatever and you give them
money and they go off and they do whatever with it, and you know that, that
that's what happens.]

It's a difficult question, I've [unclear] seen many people ask my lama that
question. You're not allowed as a buddhist

[student: You give them clothes in the cold weather and they go off and sell
them, I've had this happen.]

But as a buddhist you're not allowed to, give them anything that they could hurt
themselves with, like if someone'll ask for a gun, or ask for poison and they want
to commit suicide, you're not allowed to give them. That's true. But you have to
use wisdom, you know, you have to see how much of that is just your laziness
that you don't want to give them something, you know what I mean? You've
got to balance it well, I know you're to tell your little [unclear], no time, no time.
Later. Okay, {you om} {you om} means "lovely". This is...there are several kinds
of {jampa}. This kind of {jampa} means, where you look at people and they
seem as attractive to you as if you were a mother and they were your only son,
or their only...your...oh that's a...if you wait like an hour and fifteen minutes...no,
thanks, ah it's good that you came anyway, so here's a chair here, you want to sit
here?

[student, Paul: This kind of {jampa} or this kind of {you}?]

This kind of {jampa}. {Jampa} means "love" {nyor} means, when you look at a
person, you automatically like him as much as if he was your son or your
daughter, your only son or your only daughter. Your immediate reaction to
anybody you meet, when you look at them you feel like, you feel like you love
this person, he's very, very...you see these ugly murderers on tv, you know,
every night almost, this guy, you know, uuuuuggghhh, and he just shot thirty
people and the police are leading him away and they interview the mother and
they say, tell us about your son, he's a good boy [unclear] [laughter] you know,
it really...you see it almost every night, it's funny, you know, I mean they have
this insane, love for their children, you know and that just

[student, Nitia: Michael, I c...I can, this Eric Burner right, the guy who loved the
transaction [unclear] he said the scientist that found out the [unclear] brain, of
every human being, every time that you meet someone you have one of the six
typical reaction, killing fighting, befriending, sex, I don't know, so [unclear]
natural thing.]

Buddhism says the same thing, buddhism says a similar thing but I don't want to
get into it, we'll, we'll get there. So {nyor jampa} is this, this kind of insane love
that a mother has for her son and when you, it's just a reaction you have when
you see somebody, they look pretty to you, they look lovely to you, they look
very attractive to you, no matter how ugly they are, okay?

[student, Fran Dayan: So is that repaying the kindness?]

No, it's number four.

[student, Fran Dayan: No, but I meant, three causes four.]

Oh, the whole first three, it's, it's explained this way, okay? It's not so...and you
gotta write that down, 'cause that's part of the question...the first three cause
number four. The first three as a group, cause number four.

[student, Paul: So if everybody adopted this all the cosmetics companies would
go out of business, right?]

[laughs] Definitely the gun companies would go out of business, the weapons
makers.

[student: So, what's the whole meaning of number four?]

It means you love people like they were your son. If you, in the future, you
have a son, your only son, you're not going to have any more children, it's your
only son, you love him like that, when you look at him he looks so beautiful,
you know. Then you have that [unclear] everywhere. That's, that's what this is.

[student: Mother.]

[student, John Stilwell: I thought you're seeing everybody as your mother? I
mean [unclear] ]

They'd be your son too, right? [laughs] Okay? {Nyor jampa}. Next one is...
[student, John Stilwell: Is this, is it should be your son or your mother?]

[student, Paul: No the way a mother looks upon their only...does it have to be
son? Or is that some [unclear] ]

[students: Child! ]

[student, Paul: [unclear] ]

[students: [verbal melee-unclear] ]

[laughter] They asked me that in the last class. They asked me that in the last
class, and I said look, if you've ever lived...Nitia's lived in India, right? You've
lived in India. In India, a son is, is...you can't understand how important...it's not
crazy, it's not sexism, it's money, it's economics, you sell the girl to her husband,
you know you have to pay to have the girl taken by the husband...the, the boy
can farm, he can carry stuff, he can, he can do all the dirty, heavy physical work,
he is social security...there is no social security in India...if you do not have a son,
it's almost certain that when you get older you'll be destitute. And that's the way
it works in Asia. So it's not, it's not...it's that only a son can get a, a good paying
job, that's sexist. Okay. But and if you get old and you don't have a son, you can
just forget it, you're gonna be destitute. It's just normal in India, in, in...and
you've got to go there to see it. There's all these old people you say oh my son
died and I, I...the daughter-in-law is not supposed to take care of them, the
parents so much.

[student, Paul: So the way a mother looks upon her social security.]

[laughs] Not like that. [laughter] [unclear] That's why, that's why sons, sons are
precious and partly, partly it's social economics.

[student: What's behind that where I read that Buddha said that, if he accepted
nuns, they would cut buddhism in half [unclear] ]

Either it reduced, the length of the dharma...I don't know precise...I haven't
studied that very well. You know you hear things that stick in your mind that
are not, in the five great books.

[student: Is that not the [unclear] ]
It is in, no it is in, it is in [unclear]

[student: [unclear] it's in that book that says what the Buddha taught.]

Yeah, it...I believe that is a buddhist teaching. Now why, exactly, I don't wanna, I
don't wanna speculate right...I don't know exactly.

[student, Paul: 'Cause it wouldn't be enough social security in the future right? ]

I believe it has to do with the proximity of monks and nuns, that if...that that
would make it more difficult for monks to keep their vows. I assume that's what
it means, you know, but I don't know for sure. Okay, {nying je chenmo}.

[student: Is this five?]

Yup.

[silence]

[student, Paul:      We're going to paraphrase this here?    It's in the book, right
Mike?]

Yep. Oh, it's a little spread out in the book, you'll have to read a few pages. The
whole section is like thirteen pages, don't complain. Say {nying je}[repeat],
{chenmo}[repeat], {nying je chenmo}[repeat]. {Nying je} is a beautiful word,
{nying} means "heart", {je} means "lord"..."lord of hearts". Lord of hearts, what
does it mean? What's the, what's the highest emotion? It's, it's compassion.
That's {kuruna}. {Nying je}. Compassion. And {chenmo} means "great, big",
{mahakaruna}. What's the difference between {jampa} and {nying je}...Lynn had
a...you had a reaction to the definition of love, what do you...which is the desire
to give them everything good, what do you guess is the definition of
compassion?

[student, Lynn: That you wish everything good for them.]

That's love. Love wants to give. Compassion wants to?

[students: Take away? Take away the suffering?]

Take away suffering, that's the definition of compassion, you'll get there when
you study the [b: Perfection of Wisdom], which is the next course so, selling
point. Alright?

[student: So what is the meaning?]

Ah, great compassion. But what is compassion? Compassion wants to take
away the problems of other people.          Love wants to give them the nice
things...but compassion wants to take away their problems. There's a big debate
here in the [b: Lam Rim] texts, it says, this is the wrong order. You don't give
somebody dinner and then take them out of the fire. [laugher] Right? You get
them out of the fire and then you, then you give them dinner. And, and the
reason for presenting it this way is that the lama says, well don't forget I said
{youm}, {you}. {You} means what?

[student: Pretty.]

Pretty, beautiful, okay? If you don't see the person as beautiful, you won't to
stick...get them out of the fire. That's why love comes before compassion in this
teaching. Sometimes it's reversed. Sometimes compassion has to come before
love, because you've got to get somebody out of trouble before you give them
good stuff. {Nying je chenmo}.          Now {chenmo}, the big...there's, there is
compassion and then there's big compassion. Okay? There's compassion, there's
regular compassion, and then there's big compassion. And we'll study that in the
[b: Abhidharmakosha], which is hinyana or mahayana? Abhidharma schools.

[student: Hinyana.]

[students: Hinyana.]

They have the best presentation of compassion you'll ever see. So, you know, be
careful about this hinyana, mahayana stuff, I mean don't get too caught up with
it. Western people get caught up into it. I mean they have wonderful teachings
on, on compassion, the best ones you'll ever see are in the hinyana texts. Alright.

[silence]

[students: [chatter] ]

[unclear]
[students: [unclear chatter] number six?]

Seven.

[students: Six]

I'm sorry, you're right.

[silence]

You'll see why I made the mistake shortly.

[student, Paul: And we all knew that that was number seven instead of six, by
the way. ]

Yeah yeah, maybe I should teach you numbers. Say {hlak sum}[repeat], {nam
dak}[repeat], {hlak sum}[repeat], {nam dak}[repeat]. I love this word, I love this
word. It means, {hlak sum} means "extraordinary thought", "extraordinary state
of mind."

[student, Paul: Apart from the gods right?]

No, this is {hock}. {Hock} means "special" or "extraordinary", not related.

[student, Paul: No relation?]

No. Maybe ultimately, a million years ago, {hlak sum}.

[students: [unclear] ]

{Sum} means "state of mind". {Nam dak} means "totally pure", totally pure.
Totally pure extraordinary state of mind...is what?

[student, John Stilwell: Is {dak} pure?]

Yeah, {dak} means "pure" [unclear]. It's not boddhichitta yet, it's only number
six, right? {Hlak sum nam dak} does not, the word does not explain what it
means. What it means is this, it means I will...I will get boddhichitta and I will
serve other people and I will work to help other people, and I don't care if no
one else helps me. It's like this personal responsibility. I will save the people
around me and I don't care if nobody helps me, I'll do it myself.

[student, Paul: I'll take on the responsibility ]

Myself

[student, Paul: Myself for, for all of it.]

Yeah.

[student, John Stilwell:      So [unclear] agree to do the work before you get
boddhichitta, is that?]

Yeah, it's some kind of emotion where you say, I, I just don't care if nobody
helps me...I'm gonna do it.

[student, John Stilwell: It's before boddhichitta.]

Yeah, it's a cause for boddhichitta, it's the direct cause for boddhichitta, it's what
turns into boddhichitta. I'll do it myself, you know. I, everyone around me...I, I
won't wait for somebody else, I'll do it myself. I'll make them a buddha. Why?
Why, why is it that, that boy at that firepit had to grab the mother?

[student, Paul: 'Cause it was their mother.]

It's his mother. It's his mother. You're not going to wait for the cousin or the, or
the uncle or the, I mean the, he has the, he owes the debt. It's, it's he who
benefited from her actions, she's the one who worked for him, they have this
relationship now, this karma between them. It's his duty to help his mother.
And how many mothers you have?

[student, Fran Dayan: Countless.]

[laughs] So every single person you meet, you are like the son at the edge of the
fire, it's your responsibility. It's, it's, it's actually, karmically, your business to help
them. It's, it's your, it's your debt, it's your responsibility, and if nobody even
helps you. And I say one more thing, you know, even further...you will see that
as you try, you'll even get...people even hurt you. You know what I mean?

[student: As you try...]
To help people. I mean you, you have that experience you know...mother cooks
a good dinner and the husband comes home and says, this tastes like, you know,
and she just spent three hours cooking it, you know, and all she wanted was to
serve him, you know, and to make him happy and he comes home and he says,
you know I didn't like this, I want something else, you know, so what I mean is,
it's also tied up with not getting discouraged. Okay? It means not, not being
discouraged even when the people, the very people you are trying to help, hurt
you, try to hurt you for helping them. And...then somebody said in the other
class, what about Jehovah's witnesses? Sounds like Jehovah's witnesses you
know. They keep trying to help you and all you want to do [laughter][unclear]
No, not like that, I mean help like...it's nice, you know I always say a
boddhisattva will never go out of business. There's always somebody who
needs them, there's always somebody who wants something, it's a very pleasant
occupation. If you get into it. If all you want to do is give to other people, you'll
never run out of customers. You know? It's great. Everybody'll take from you.
You know? It's, it's a great occupation. Everyone you meet needs something,
you know, so give them what they need, give them what they want, as far as
you can.

[student, John Stilwell: It pays the bills too.]

Karmically. Yeah, sure.

[student, Paul: There's an extraordinary emphasis in mahayana dharma, you
know, especially in, like, when people first start learning about boddhichitta and
this is I think perhaps the epitome of it right here.]

It's not boddhichitta. It's a cause of boddhichitta.

[student, Paul: Yes, the development of boddhichitta, the epitome of, you know,
wanting to take on the responsibility of helping everyone. It seems as if, in the
higher states of existence, nirvana for instance, seem to be quite thoroughly
devoid of this kind of compassion unless generated first while you're down on
this level, I means like as if there's a danger of saving yourself and then just
being quite content and not having the slightest thought for everybody else back
here.]

We'll get to that. There's a whole teaching on it, and we'll get to it.
[student, Paul: Is that, is that, is that something that's a...]

It'll come. No, it'll come. Yeah, yeah [unclear] thought but it's not...it's gonna
come. It will come, and, and it's the very interesting question of what is the
mechanism that gets somebody out of nirvana onto a boddhisattva track. What
is it that triggers that? What could make you want to be a boddhisattva if you
are already in fat city, you know what I mean? And there's a very beautiful
teaching on it. Okay, we'll get there. By the way, that's why I kind of don't like
to see the translation universal responsibility for boddhichitta because really it's,
it's the step before that which is really the, you know, it kinda would confuse
you.

[student: Universal responsibility.]

Some people say that, for, for number seven. Actually number six is that feeling
of responsibility...it's the cause of boddhichitta. Number seven is {chang sem},
you know it. {Lam} number...what?

[students: Two.]

Two. [laughter] [unclear] principle path number two. Principle path number
two, alright? And obviously, that's a result...of this, of this kind of thought. I, I
will save them myself and that's...then finally, you get this real wish that
I...wha...how is this different from this?

[student, John Stilwell: One is thinking and one is engaging?]

Not really, I mean that's, that is a division that comes later in, inside of {chang
sem}, but this is more thinking I'll take responsibility and at this point you
understand, I must become a buddha.

[student: Conclusion.]

Yeah because only a buddha can really help you.

[student, Paul: It's the perfection of the ladder, no?]

Yeah. When I become a buddha...it's interesting, a definition of the buddha, one
of the definitions of the buddha, is {je nyi phuntsok}, which means, the minute
you become a buddha...this is very interesting philosophically and is presented in
the opening lines of the [b: Pramana Pratica]

[student, Paul: Year three's section four.]

Year four. That you, the minute you become a buddha, you have achieved
everything that other people need. So there's horrible debate in the monastery,
you know, wow man, there's no poor people? What are you talking about? You
know? If, if when you become a buddha you automatically achieve everything
that everyone else needs,

[student, John Stilwell: You don't achieve it for them though, is that the point?]

It's a difficult point, I mean I'm not gonna go into it.

[student, Paul: You have to go out and distribute it then, I think it [unclear] ]

[laughter] It's very interesting. A buddha, a buddha, by becoming a buddha,
has completely filled everything he needs, and he has completely filled
everything anyone else needs, it's very interesting.

[student, Paul: It's the ultimate in philanthropy, it's the perfection of I mean it's
like]

By becoming a buddha.

[student, John Stilwell: The distinction isn't clear between these two [unclear] ]

This one you wanna...this one I, I, I also agree, I'm not clear on the distinction to
be honest. But I believe in this one you, you haven't quite stressed that you have
to become a buddha. At, by this one you understand that you have to become a
buddha...you, you remember that definition of boddhichitta? What was it?

[student, John Stilwell: Buddhamind?]

No, definition. {[unclear]}

[student, Fran Dayan: The wish to achieve]

It's got two {dunba}'s, it's got two wishes. One is focused on other people,
helping other people, and one is focused on becoming a buddha. I think this one
is obviously focused on helping other people...but it, I would say it kind of lacks
that idea that, oh, I better become a buddha so I can really help other
people...that's number seven.

[student, Vilma Staiano: Well because you don't know exactly how it is that you
can help. ]

Right, how to do it, yeah, yeah, so.

[student, Fran Dayan: Also I think six has more perseverance, I don't give up
kind of thing.]

It has both of those ideas, not giving up, in the face of even resistance from other
people, I     mean you'll be...you can be disappointed, there's stories about
boddhisattvas, there's a famous boddhisattva in India, I, I forgot his name. He
was one of the greatest buddhist scholars of the time, he was like in the class of
Nagarjuna, and he was walking down the road, and this demon appeared as a
human being and he said give me your, if you are a boddhisattva, give me your
eyeball. So he said okay and he reaches in...'ttkk'...you know, try it...he goes...he
puts his fingers in, and takes out his eye and gives it to him. And then the guy
takes the eye, says thank you very much and he goes like that and he stamps on
it, he smashes it. You know? And then he turns into a demon and says ha-ha I
fooled you, you know, and, at that moment, that, that boddhisattva, he, for a
moment he lost his boddhichitta. There's that story that he, he got discouraged.
You know he said, you know if people are so evil, and so crazy, as to ask me for
my eye and then destroy it, because I'm a boddhisattva, it's too much, I, I can't
take it, you know, I can't handle these people and he, he lost his boddhichitta for
a second, and then he regained it later.

[student: Yeah isn't, didn't we learn last time that even...that you can't lose it, that
the attitude is so powerful and ]

[laughter] We'll get into it, we'll get into it.

[student, Paul: Is, is number six someone who's still capable of still being
discouraged and number seven is beyond? Is that the distinction?]

Not necessarily. There's that story, we'll discuss it when we get to the, the

[student: Also six seems like you, you don't lose, you persevere, you wanna,
you wanna help everyone and seven you're it, you've gotten the wish, you are it,
you are, you are ]

You have the true wish, but it's...my point is that it's focused at Buddhahood, you
understand what you have to do. And number six, at number six you're still,
you've agreed to do it, but you're not quite sure of what to do, and number
seven you're already focused on Buddhahood, it's oh yeah, the way I can really
help people.

[student: [unclear] it's the effect of [unclear] ]

By the way, number seven is...that effect. It is the last result in that seven. Yeah?

[student, John Stilwell: So number seven is you have boddhichitta and then you
want to be [unclear] ]

Which, by the way, is a cause, right? It still becomes a cause for something
bigger, but that is the...if you drew a cause and effect it would be at the end of
the foodchain, right? I mean that's the, the only result, pure result. Okay, we got
one more thing to talk about and then you go.

[student, John Stilwell: Can you just say quickly the cause and effect of those
seven now, [unclear] together?]

I knew you'd ask me that. Number three cause number four.

[students: [unclear] ]

[student: You said the first three cause number four.]

Yeah I'm sorry, all...the first three cause number four. Number four causes
number five. Number five six and number six seven. And you, you know it's
obvious. You, you think about it. O-kay, you wanted more, do we have one
more? We have one more?

[student, John Stilwell: One more what?]

We have one more to go.

[student, John Stilwell: One more what?]
[students: [unclear]...seven...number seven...[unclear] ]

Aaah, and this is...number zero. [laughter]

[students: Unique system [unclear] ]

[unclear] Okay. When they give this teaching they always say, to get number
one, you, you gotta have a big preparation step, there's a preparation step that
comes before all seven. You gotta have something else before you can have this,
even number one of the step.

[student: Then how come it didn't come before one?]

Well, I kinda forgot to give it to you. [laughter]

[student: [unclear] keep you a little off balance.]

[unclear] should be honest, I mean. I have to tell the truth [unclear]. I can lie at
work right I gotta tell the truth [unclear] [laughs] Okay, say

[student: Do you work here? I can't really forget, you did it on purpose, right?]

No, no I must say I forgot. {Tang nyong}...I remembered about number two
and then I thought, silly to go to zero now. [laughter] Okay, say {tang nyong}
[repeat]. {Tang nyong} is equanimity, equanimity. Equal mind. All the people
you see you feel the same. If you see someone you like, or if you see someone
you don't like, or if you see someone you don't care about, you don't like him
you don't hate him you don't feel anything you know you meet him on a bus,
you don't care. It's where you, you try to reach this state of mind where you're
not biased, you don't like this person more than this person, you try to...make it
equal. Equal feeling towards everybody. Does it mean equal bad feeling toward
everybody? No, I mean, it means like try to make your feelings...if you see her,
or if you see her, you pretty much feel the same, you don't feel, oh I like her
better, you know? And, and, and the reason you can guess, tell me the reason.

[student: [unclear] if they're [unclear] equal you can't think they're [unclear]
permanent.]

Well that's one thing but, but...because you, because you're whatever thought
you have now, had to come from a time before please. Why does that prove it?

[student, John Stilwell: Why does that prove equanimity?]

Yeah, why does it prove that you should be equal to everybody? Everything's
been every...everybody's been everything, give me a break, you know? You've
killed me a hundred times. You've killed me a million times. You've burned my
fingers off a million times, you know, you did every nasty thing to me I can
imagine...and you've also been my best friend millions of times, you've been my
mother millions of times [cut] can't trust the idea, the concept of friend, or enemy
is very...is very, almost silly, it's obvious that they shift all the time. It doesn't
mean you should distrust everybody it means...keep a neutral feeling, feel the
same for everybody because they can be anything to you, even in this life you
can see it. You know, people that you thought were your great friends, you
know...and I don't mean it in a bad way, I don't mean it in a bitter way, I mean it
just happens, why, because of your karma not them actually.

[student: Why don't we all have the same karma [unclear], why don't we share
the exact same karma and we've all been every[unclear] ]

It's just whatever you've been recently, actually.

[student, John Stilwell: It's just the order in [unclear] ]

Yeah, yeah, yeah it is, yeah.

[students: [unclear] ]

[student: [unclear] so we do all share the same karma so we have to have all the
same karma as every person.]

If you averaged it out, you know, calc' sum in paradise, right? I mean if you, if
you averaged them all out, y'know, we've all, we all are the same. But at any
given time, one of us is up and one of us is down, and one of us is pretty and one
of us is ugly and

[student, Paul: [unclear] ]

[student, Nitia: There is a meditation for developing equanimity [unclear] where
you imagine..you visualize your best friend, your worst enemy and so on
indifferent. What is in there?]

You know I've tried to meditate on {tong nyom}, I think I did it for two years,
and I tried to get {un nyo}, zero, I couldn't get to number one, right? I tried,
really...I think it was about a year or two, I tried to get {tong nyom} I tried to
start feeling the same about people...it's very hard, it's very hard.

[student, Paul: The subway's really good, you could just get on the subway and
you just people you never saw before they walk on something about them looks
funny [unclear] ]

Yeah then you see a pretty girl, you know, I like her already, why, you know
why?

[student: But those are people you don't really have to interact with, it's harder if
the people you interact with on a daily basis ]

Yeah, yeah.

[student, Paul: [unclear] if this is people who have no effect on you at all you're
never gonna see again and [unclear] and you don't know them from Adam they
could be saints and you're ]

[student: Then why do you need to have strong feelings about them? [unclear]]

[student, Paul: I'm trying to get my mind into neutral [unclear] I don't think
anything, let's, let's, let's bring it to [unclear] ]

[student: [unclear] ]

No, no, by the way, by the way...no, no, by the way, what he said about getting
the mind in neutral is very important.       What's the purpose of breathing
meditation?

[students: To, to calm the mind...develop equanimity ]

It's to put the mi...no, it's to put the mind in neutral, it's very interesting. People
take breathing meditation as a goal, as an end, it's not. It is not, it is taught in the
sixth chapter of the [b: Abhidharmakosha], it is not. Its only function is
[student: But it's physical equanimity, it's calm.]

No, that's a different point. By the way, there are other kinds of {tong nyom}
and that's why [unclear] so that's true.           But what it means is...breathing
meditation, the only function is to get your mind, your mind...you come up, you
get out from work, we know, you know, you come out of the office and you go
grrrrrrr-hru-hru, you know? [laughter] You go home and, if you, if you sit down
right away, you know you're gonna have a disastrous meditation and you
know, 'cause you've tried it, you know...it's just a disaster, you sit down and your
mind go woo-ooo-ooo, you know, I hate this guy, I hate this...and breathing
meditation is you come home and you, you eat, you rest, and then you go to
meditate and you just try to get your mind into neutral. And that idea that, that
the word neutral, think of a car, you know, if you drive, if you've ever grinded
the gears, that's what it is the, the...it must go into neutral, and then into reverse,
you know? If you've ever had...I remember my little brother did that once, and
my mother, you know, grrrrrrrrrrn, and he goes kkkkkkk, you can't...and your
mind does that, if you try to go from your office to your, your altar, it doesn't
work you need the breathing meditation in between, that's the function of
breath...and it's explained in the [b: Abhidharma] and you will study it, you'll
study the original text where it was taught...and then you know what it is.
[unclear] was the first person to

[student: Is breathing meditation shamata practice?]

Different thing.

[student: Vipassana?]

Different, no. You'll learn.

[student, John Stilwell: You say you practiced two years [unclear] {tong len} ]

I tried. No, {tong nyung} not {tong len}.

[student, John Stilwell: Oh, so, so what was...]

What was the result?

[student: What brought result, what was the thing that worked? If this didn't
work.]
I called the guy garbage today, I'm sorry [laughs][laughter] [unclear]       In my
mind you know.

[student: [unclear] broken down or is it?]

Not, not really. {Nyong} means "even", it doesn't mean...there are two other
kinds of {tang}, {tang} is...not enough meaning. It normally means "to stand".

[student: Can you give me an example you said you meditated on this for two
years.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.     I tried, okay? [laughter] I tried...I'm not saying I got it or
[unclear]. I tried.

[student: [unclear] when you, when you give us something to do in the
meditation.]

By the way, there's two ways of teaching [b: Lam Rim]

[student: What we should really do, sitting there and thinking over and over
and over]

Yeah, yeah, no. There's two ways of, of learning

[student: This, this concept?]

Yeah, go over the seven.

[student: And then like twisting it in our minds [unclear] ]

Go over the seven until [unclear] makes sense.

[student: Say that again?]

Go over these seven. At least go over them in your meditation until you can run
them through your brain easily, one-two-three-four-five-six-seven, [unclear]

[student: That's called memorizing.]
It is, but, but...there's this idea of mental, of even in language learning they have
this idea of making...making links? You know? You, if you run it over in your
mind, just think about it, in those seven steps in a quiet room once a day, it
becomes part of your consciousness, it affects your consciousness. It does, just
think about it...just go over the seven.

[student, Paul: It's a mental obstacle course, you keep running it over and over
again you get agile.]

And I would say, you know, I, I think it'd be really good to go over that
argument for past lives...'cause without that I say you can't do this anyway. Until
you have a pretty firm intellectual understanding of past lives it's, not much
[unclear]

[student: You can't do what?]

I don't think you can see other people as your mama. And someone said to me
in the last class, and he said, he's the best student or he's one of the best students,
he's, he's a very good thinker and he said to tell you the truth, the other one
sounds easier to me...where I just try to put myself in Laura's shoes, you know?
That just seems to me a lot more natural and a lot easier, I don't have to believe
in past lives and blah-blah- blah, and I said I, I think there's a reason why he put
it here, there's always a reason, you know? Struggle with it. You might find,
often times the practice that seem to you least attractive turns out to be the most
dynamite because it's what you didn't have naturally. It's what you lacked...so
try it, try it. Okay, two more things to talk about. Fifteen [unclear]

[end of side two of tape]
The Asian Classics Institute

Geshe Michael Roach
Course 1: Principal Teachings of Buddhism